DW crying infront of the children

[Tonytonitonee]

Does crying / arguing in front of children have an long term impact on their well being? I remember my parents having screaming rows when i was younger and being unpstairs listening and being in a state of panic. This was 30-35 odd years ago and it still makes me upset when I remember.

Due to my childhood experience, I have tried my best not to be too emotional in front of my children.

However, my DW has no hesitation crying or arguing in front of the children.

This means we cannot have an adult conversation about any issues with our marriage because she will become very defensive & shouty.

It also means that when she criticises me in front of the children, and she does fairly often, I don't defend myself. I generally accept her criticism because I want descalate the situation. Unfortunately, the children have occasionally repeated DW's criticism.

I am abit lost as to what I should do next. I am deeply, deeply unhappy, but I am too scared to say anything for fear of upsetting DW.

There are a few separate things I see here. One is regards showing emotions in front of children. Sometimes it's unavoidable. For example, during times of serious illness and pain, I've cried. I wished I could have contained but I couldn't. My reaction was a natural human response to an incredibly traumatic situation. This is real life.

This situation you describe is about how you and your wife communicate. You can't talk to her because her reaction feels manipulative and the children are being pulled into the manipulation. That's a really awful position for you and the children.

It doesn't sound like a good situation for you or the children to be in. If your wife can't reasonably see there's a problem with this then I don't see how you can personally improve the situation.

I will have these conversations in private but she is so sensitive that she will become upset and cry and obviously the children will find out.

It's not just me; she's become upset at the children not listening or if there is an issue with someone at work, a friend or her family. Anything can upset her.

I am genuinely at all loss about what to do. I am walking on egg shells just doing my best not to upset her.

There is so much going on with me, at work, and other stuff and I feel completely overwhelmed. I just want to sit in a dark room for a few days.

its a rubbish existence for everyone.

They are 11 and 9.

We have these conversations away from the children but afterwards she will tell the children, 'Your father is mean to me; he said this.'

She won't consider the impact her words will have on the children.

I don't argue in front of my children. My parents argued infront of me when I was younger and I do my best to avoid any conflict infront of the children.

But when I attempt to discuss things with her, away from the children, she becomes defensive and her tears will continue infront of the children.

I do my best not to cause any conflict.

I voted YABU. Op due to the title. I actually think its hugely important to show our emotions around children and allow them to learn it's human to cry/feel tired/frustrated. So for the comment on not showing emotions YABU.

However, what you are describing in subsequent posts is not showing emotion by crying in front of the children by your wife. That's outright manipulation. Your wife is hugely unreasonable for this. Talking about adult conversations to children is unreasonable and blaming the other parent is umresonable and all things that will.ne very damaging to your children.

Do call the men's helpline. I would also consider some counselling for you. And later perhaps marriage councelling to learn how to better communicate together.

Are you waiting until they're in bed? I'm assuming the fact her tears carry on mean they're still up and about when you're arguing? What is she upset about, are you doing 50% of childcare /housework?

So you are having these conversations in the evening, once the children are in bed.

And then the next day, she tells the children that Daddy is being mean and starts crying?

That's utterly awful if true.

Marriage counselling

But what exactly are you arguing about?

This is abusive. You need to get counselling away from the children. What she is doing is abusive to you and the children. If she doesn't change, I'd think about leaving.

It takes 2 to argue.

Arguing in front of the kids, a big No.
Crying if it's to manipulate, No.
Showing you have emotions in a healthy way, Yes.
Emotions are part of life and kids learn to cope by watching you.

Typical man hater response

Did you even read the op.

She is also shouting and criticising the kids and the OP doesn't say anything when she is doing this, for fear of making it worse. But yes it's his fault.

Not always. Sometimes if you don't respond then they just go on and on. When I was younger and subject to a lot of bullying I didn't react but they'd just keep pilling on me. He may not be arguing with her in the sense of responding but it doesn't mean she'll let up, like a dog with a bone she'll go on and on.

Take this and your partner to a relationship counsellor to help work it
out together

Crying in front of kids, not a hard and fast no-no but depends on the context. I remember feeling angry (still am) with my mum crying over her stupid relationship choices from me being about 9 or 10. I haven't quite forgiven her for her behaviour where her love life was concerned.

However using tears to be manipulative, relaying conversations back to your children, this is abusive both to you and to the children.

Your wife sounds abusive to me OP. I grew up with a mother and stepfather who had screaming rows and it was horrendous. Yes, it will be damaging for your DC to see their mother behaving like this and the fact that they are already mirroring her behaviour shows that. Your reluctance to stand up for yourself is all very well, but her abuse vs. your weakness in the face of it is also not showing them either a healthy relationship, healthy conflict resolution or reasoned argument. I think showing conflict and healthy resolution is important, but that's not what's happening.

Firstly, seek support for yourself - there are resources on this thread already so I won't repeat them. Then, if you want to try and work on your marriage and improve the situation, you could try to persuade your wife to engage in couples therapy. However, it sounds like things are probably too far gone for that - you say you're deeply, deeply unhappy and scared of her - so I would book an appointment with a solicitor and start the ball rolling to separate. For now, I'd keep this secret and as they say 'get your ducks in a row'. There is no point poking the bear until you've got your escape plan made.

Women do sometimes abuse their partners (there was a programme on C4 last week about a man who was in an abusive relationship - it was called something like The Real Fatal Attraction), and there is no shame in it. Please get support and leave this relationship if you need to. You do not have to live like this!

em... so the other party should just accept the abuse/criticism/untruths? One can remain calm and respond with details, explanation etc.. while remaining reasonable... Or just accept (perhaps) irrational/untrue criticism?

@Tonytonitonee your wife sounds awful. She's emotionally damaging your DC, not to mention the effect on you.

Would you consider separating?

Crying in front of your children is not bad per say. I cry watching sad stuff on tv, or when our pet cat died, and some of it was in front of DC. It's ok to cry when you are sad and to show emotion.
But this doesn't sound like what your wife is doing. She is involving your DC in adult matters and arguments that they have no business knowing, no power and that can only be upsetting and stressful to them.
Co parents also need to be a team and resolve differences away from children to present a united front.
Constant criticism and belittling of a partner in front of your children is abusive to you and detrimental to your children.

Sixty years on, still remember arguments and mum’s tears. They really could not discuss anything without shouting an d falling out, even over nothing. Then mum would storm out for hours and then not speak for weeks. Very upsetting for us kids and thought us how not to be. Vile marriage only.ended in very old age death of one. We all wish they had split. Would counselling by with a try to work out how to disagree civilly? If no, separate To keep the kids sane

This sounds toxic and dysfunctional all round to be honest.

your wife shouldn’t be involving the children in your relationship issues and you shouldn’t be not showing emotions around them.

I am going to disagree about the marriage counseling OP, you should never have joint counseling with an abuser and what your wife is doing is abuse. She has you walking on eggshells in case she again involves the kids in adult discussions, she has criticized you to the kids, she is making your home life tense and intolerable. I think you need support for yourself and to seriously consider if there is a way forward in this marriage. Your wife is using your children to harm and control you, it's harming you and the kids.

Maybe look up triangulation OP, https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-triangulation-in-psychology-5120617

I think the mean issue is if she's calling you names in front of the kids. If for example she's saying you shouldn't have done x that's one thing but if she's saying you're an x that's bullying and absolutely indefensible.

I'd talk when she's calm. I don't think you can tackle everything but I'd say absolutely no name calling. The risk of the children witnessing this they become bullies or accept bullying as the norm.

I understand things are difficult sometimes, we all get upset. If you call me a name I will have to say I understand you're angry. I will not be called names.

Me and the children need to give you time to calm down. Then ask her to leave the room or leave with the kids.

If you have any success move on to, no yelling and de escalate from there.

Not everyone. You clearly don't know a person like OPs DW - I'm happy for you,honestly nobody should have to suffer this.

I know someone who will keep yelling at you no matter what you do. If you leave the room - yells why are you walking off. If you're quiet- why do you have nothing to say. If you talk quietly there are issues with what you said. If you're sorry- still not enough. I've you're a master diplomat - now you're manipulative.