DW crying infront of the children

[Tonytonitonee]

Does crying / arguing in front of children have an long term impact on their well being? I remember my parents having screaming rows when i was younger and being unpstairs listening and being in a state of panic. This was 30-35 odd years ago and it still makes me upset when I remember.

Due to my childhood experience, I have tried my best not to be too emotional in front of my children.

However, my DW has no hesitation crying or arguing in front of the children.

This means we cannot have an adult conversation about any issues with our marriage because she will become very defensive & shouty.

It also means that when she criticises me in front of the children, and she does fairly often, I don't defend myself. I generally accept her criticism because I want descalate the situation. Unfortunately, the children have occasionally repeated DW's criticism.

I am abit lost as to what I should do next. I am deeply, deeply unhappy, but I am too scared to say anything for fear of upsetting DW.

I try not to overly argue or be super snippy in front of our son, I don't avoid crying though as I want him to be in touch with his emotions.

Which is why I'd like to hear the other version of events.

But you aren't going to. It's unlikely the OP's DW is going to wade into the thread here.

All anyone can do is try to gently probe why this is happening, and what is making her behave in this irrational way?

If it is purely manipulative then I would be deeply concerned for the children, because even if their dad does leave their mum, she is likely to still be responsible for a large amount of their care - leaving them exposed.

Maybe as someone upthread suggested she is perimenopausal (if this is relatively recent of course?) because some perimenopausal women can suffer irrational bouts of anger that they struggle to control?

Why are you accusing him?

Yanbu, constant crying is emotional abuse.

I don’t get the comments about needing to hear ‘the other side’ and I hear those sorts of comment a lot more when it’s a male poster who is the OP complaining about a woman’s behaviour as opposed to when it’s a woman complaining about a man.

It’s Mumsnet, 99% of the posts are only going to be showing one persons account of what’s going on - that’s how it goes!

We can only really go on what we have been told by Op. Based on that it’s evident she is engaging in emotionally damaging behaviours that will impact her children severely.

There is no good reason for her to be relaying the details of arguments conducted in private to her kids, or bad mouthing the kids father to them.

Shocking but absolutely unsurprising the number of apologists for abuse on this thread. Male victim so it must be untrue, must be his fault, he must be to blame.

awful but so often the case on mumsnet

go on a thread with a female victim of abuse and say that.

no? Funny that

Really? I think there’s far, far fewer apologist comments on this thread than I normally read actually. Over 90% of posters are sure the DW is abusive.

Don’t be ridiculous. What an absurd thing to say. No one says that to a victim of abuse do they.

No, obviously she's not.

When I say I'd like to hear the other version, I think it's obvious that what I mean is that the OP's version makes no sense to me.

If they really are having perfectly civilised private disagreements, and OP's wife then tearfully relays everything to primary-aged children while denouncing OP as "being mean to her" then obviously she is being the unreasonable one and no normal partner would feel the need for a sanity check on Mumsnet.

Whatever the truth of the matter, there is fairly obviously a different motive for posting about it here. That's the bit I'd like to understand. Hearing her verson of events would probably shed the necessary light but I agree that's unlikely to happen.

I just dislike the Greek chorus rushing to denounce her behaviour on the say so of her husband, the other party in the arguments, and, as I said upthread, I hope the real goal isn't to beat her into submission by saying "and everyone on Mumsnet agrees with me", because if so well done everyone.

It's a question?

Depends on the reason for the crying surely?

If your wife is 'crying' and involving your children on purpose, then this is horrendously manipulative and abusive.

If she is genuinely upset to the point that she's crying over anything and everything and involving the children, then she's in serious need of therapy.

Either way, you have to act for the sake of your kids. Good luck.

You both have deeply unhealthy communication styles. It seems like she's very aggressive and you're very avoidant.

Trying to discuss your issues with her in front of the children, especially since you know her reaction is not sensible. Ignoring it and not defending yourself is just as bad. You can address your problems away from the children if you know it's going to escalate, or you can seek help from a marriage counsellor, or leave.

Either way, what your children are witnessing is much more unhealthy than a normal argument which is then resolved.

My parents argued alot. The volume was high but no one was ever nasty, it was more frustration or about an issue. It never bothered me

I think its good for kids to see conflict and tears if they also see resolution and comfort.

Someone can be angry and still love you. Two things can be true at once

I mean if that's true that's highly inappropriate and you may need to consider couples counselling

I'd disagree if the arguing isn't "nasty", name calling or abusive and as long as the children also see the resolution element

Is she depressed?

I'll admit I have cried and my children have come in to the same room and noticed. I was ill, stressed and bereaved. I thanked them for their care and reassured them I was fine, just having a moment feeling sad like we all do, then did something nice to cheer everyine up. I like to think it taught them that it's okay/human to cry, but that it's a passing emotion, and also possible to be present and in control again.

Your DWs situation sounds unhealthy though. I'd look to counselling for yourself to get some support to navigate your way through this, but you're right, it needs to change.

It would be a really good idea for you to get yourself to therapy or counselling to talk about your feeling. Then, after you’ve figured out your own feelings, suggest couples therapy.

Being depressed (and I speak as someone who suffers from depression) does not excuse the kind of emotional manipulation and control that the OP's wife is subjecting him/her and their children to.

Crying every time there was any sort of disagreement, to the point where the OP can't ever express an opinion or have a discussion so the wife always gets her own way, would be abusive and manipulative in itself. But doing it in front of the children - even when the actual conversation didn't even happen in front of them! - and then relaying the argument back to them to explain why she's crying is absolutely unforgiveable. The OP's wife's behaviour is appalling and whether she is depressed or not, it needs to stop. Now.

I do believe it takes 2 to argue. I do believe couples can sink into repeat patterns of unhealthy behaviour which they may need help with.

So involving the children at those ages does seem damaging. But if she’s crying because OP is responding unreasonably to legitimate criticism and refusing to reach a resolution unless DW accepts blame for whatever is in issue, then OP may in fact be abusive/controlling/ scared to admit fault due to OP’s difficult childhood experiences but so sure they are not as they are keeping the issue private.

On the other hand, if DW is menopausal, or depressed, or struggling, whilst it could be emotional abuse to constantly criticise and then cry to manipulate unwarranted sympathy, it could also be a cry for help.

I suspect the best way forward as a couple would be to seek some couples counselling to try to unpack it all.

I wish OP and their family a solution going forward.

It's probably a bit above the scale of what you're talking about. But... my parents argued (screaming rows, locking each other out of the house) throughout my childhood and my mum would always come to me. She'd badmouth my dad, tell me the details of what they were arguing about, and seek reassurance that she was 'right'. She, too, is 'sensitive' and as a child I never felt confident enough to do any more than agree with her and express sympathy. If I didn't, there would be more tears, days of strife and dramatics, up to and including suicide threats that I would feel were my fault.

It's undermined my confidence, made me a chronic people-pleaser as an adult and to this day I find it very hard to deal with conflict or to stand up to others. She still tells me far too much about their marriage - including some fairly awful details that nobody needs to know about their parents - and although I do now try to discourage it, I still find it really hard to avoid being dragged in emotionally. It's also partly why I haven't had children. I'd hate to do the same to anyone else.

I've seen it called "parentification". Look it up, and please don't let the same damage be done to your kids.

Same experience. I hated it, it made me feel I had to be the adult from a very young age. It causes lasting anxiety imho.