To be Concerned about husband's reaction to Xmas planning making it about race

[anonymousxmasposter]

I'm a British Asian woman married to a white man, and I'm currently pregnant with our first child. I need some advice about a situation that's really bothering me.

I suggested hosting Christmas this year but separately for our families - mainly because of logistics. My family is quite large (10 people), younger (mostly teens and twenty-somethings), and celebrates with music, games, and a lively atmosphere. His family is small (4 people), much older (60s-80s), more traditional, and quieter. His father has dementia and hearing difficulties, which makes large gatherings challenging for him.

When I suggested hosting our families separately to make everyone more comfortable, my husband immediately accused me of wanting an "Asian-only Christmas where we just do our own Asian thing." I was shocked because it had nothing to do with race - I was thinking about space, comfort levels, and very different celebration styles. My sisters boyfriend is white too, so it wasn't about excluding anyone based on race.

I ended up feeling so guilty that I changed my plans to invite his family, but I'm deeply troubled by his response and how quickly he turned a practical concern into a racial accusation. This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

I'm especially worried as we're expecting a child. What if our child had heard that comment?

Im also keen to hear from people in same race relationships, for Xmas if you were hosting at your home, do you also blend families - was it weird of me to say I didn't want to do that?

Whether you have or haven't what the hell do I do with this as feel really alone with this and could use some advice as I have no one I can talk to about this without judgement.

@CatStoleMyChocolate thing is he has iPad of friends I have hardly any, my social life is mainly family because my friends are SHiT.

I'm so if he's envious of my family why aren't I making his friendship group about him and his little white only English gatherings?

@CatStoleMyChocolate I will asking add, he has uncles he sees all the time, I am not in touch with hardly any extended family so he has many things in his life sadly I don't which is why I just like to enjoy my family, I don't have many other people outside of it

To be honest how I feel right now I'm not sure I want to be around anyone at Christmas and may even decide to go on holiday or cancel it all.

I don't want to give in after all this so perhaps it's easier just to call it all off

If you can’t get him to recognize that there is a problem you won’t be able to get him to couple’s therapy. The whole point of the (stupid/offensive) race accusation was to disable you and hurt you and shut down normal negotiations. So naturally he won’t want to enter into any kind of discussion about the marriage or his motives for being so hostile over holiday logistics.

The whole “he’s so logical “ or “you are so sensitive “ thing is a fairly typucal trap that couples get into when one member wants to get his way but doesn’t want to negotiate for it or recognize the other person’s feelings or autonomy. Its much easier to say something hostile and shut down the discussion by forcing OP into retreat and self doubt than be vulnerable and say “I feel sad that my family us old snd small and rigid and that my parents can’t enjoy a big Christmas and the baby stuff because (they wouldn’t like it)”. Blaming you and making you feel bad is easier than expressing these feelings himself

You might take a look at “adult children of the emotionally immature” and I think you will find your dh there under the description of the various family types. Emotional immaturity is a bit easier to see when n practice once you read about it. It’s ne of the hallmarks is that these people express their pain through contagion: if they are unhappy they make you feel unhappy rather than problem solving.

I am concerned that your dh’s go to insult, his “killer app” was racial resentment. Despite the various PP apologists on this thread white racism is on the rise everywhere, can easily be expressed within an interracial family, and is a dearly held privilege (like misogyny) of failed men as its the last bastion of power for those who feel disempowered.

But its also the case that he may be feeling overwhelmed, sad, and bitter that his family is shrinking and drying up while yours is growing and flourishing. And he may just not have the emotional maturity to accept that.

At any rate I would try to read books on marriage like John Gottman’s work and on emotional immaturity and on the 5 love languages and seek to move the discussion off this one point of conflict and onto general principles of the marriage you want to have. Race relations are a hot button word—accusations of separatism and selfishness are hot button accusations that should be disallowed in a goid marriage. You don’t want to be married to someone who hits below the belt and he shouldn’t want to be married to the woman he us pretending, for the sake of argument, to think you are.

He doesn’t know how to fight fair so you are going to have to tell him and teach him what you expect. So far it works for him to use race as a stick to beat you. You will have to be brave and tell him he needs to stop doing that if he wants this marriage to thrive.

You sound lovely.

i would be very concerned he said the most inflammatory thing he could because he knew the fairest way is to take turns. And it’s completely off for him to insist it’s his family every year. I suspect some of his reaction is jealousy that you’ve an easy earn family and he doesn’t have this.

I’m also v concerned as to how your relationship will work once the baby comes. He’s horrible suggesting he won’t take his turn at night feeds.

be careful you don’t lose yourself to this relationship. He sounds like a take and someone who can be a bit of a bully.

It's just real hard at the moment and that was so unexpected especially after we recently had a big issue that we recently resolved and I felt I had really made progress in trying hard not to be argumentative and fix my flaws and this now just feels a big backwards step and slap in the face.

You are not the person who needs to do the work. His car is busted. You fixing your car won’t fix his.

I'm guessing he feels like 4 people isn't many, and so you just want to keep his family away from yours. Hence his comment about you wanting to have an Asian-only celebration with your family. One white boyfriend won't change that, but 2-4 older white in-laws might. I'm not saying this is the case, I just think this is his thought process. It's not even about race. It's an in-law thing. A lot of people don't particularly like their in-laws around because it changes the dynamic of what they are used to.

Why are (some) posters so quick to dismiss the serious implications of the racism accusation from the dh to OP? It is not a neutral observation—its a literal accusation that she is hurting and rejecting his family on the basis of race. It can’t be undone as an accusation, it wasn’t taken back or apologized for. It was lobbed like a grenade into the relationship. Maybe he did it because his ickle feelings were hurt. But so what? That is an explanation not an excuse. If I want my MIL to pass me the salt its not ok for me to also call her a salty bitch who can’t season the foid properly. Just being sad or unhappy about something doesn’t give him the license to attack OP.

This reminds me of this post: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5129706-conversations-around-race-with-your-partner?page=1

A WOC who has somehow managed to gaslight herself into marrying a racist, and is now desperately trying not to see or address that fact. Lots of ‘not understanding’ and talk of counselling.

I wonder how this sort of thing even happens? Self hate? Low self esteem? The desire for a man…any man?

I'm sorry OP.

The more you post, the more alarm bells are ringing for me. The way he treats you is not right:

• making racist comments
• forcing you to have evidence to back up any points you want to make
• making you feel like you can't bring up any issues as you won't be heard or will get a spiteful remark to shut you down
• reducing the amount of time you spend with your family in favour of his (40:1 is so unbalanced)
• being spiteful to you
• refusing to help with the baby at night
• saying you'll have to be the only one who talks about race with your joint child (this might be a blessing as if he is racist to you, Lord knows what he'd say to your joint child)

I have been where you are OP and I'm guessing this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Don't cancel your family Christmas OP. That is what he wants.

Can you focus on spending more time with your friends and family? Hopefully that will give you time and space to decide what you want out of life and you'll feel less isolated and alone.

I know it's really hard, but try not to dwell on figuring out why he says and does spiteful things. I got lost in that trap for a long time and ultimately it doesn't matter why, it matters that he does it.

💐

He is resentful , jealous , insecure and sorry to say but he is a racist
Racist men marry woman of other cultures btw. I have witnessed this

Concerns about racism are often dismissed on MN I have noticed.

OP, my DH and I are the same ethnicity and have never hosted both our families together for Christmas.

The majority of our friends who are the same ethnicity as their partners either take turns, or they see one side of the family christmas day and the other side boxing day/christmas eve.
I don’t buy that your DH genuinely believes that the vast majority married or co-habiting couples host both sides of their families together on Christmas day. He must know from casual conversations with friends, colleagues and acquaintances that plenty of couples don't do this.

He is manipulating you. Don't fall for it.

Only if they want to be

I felt I had really made progress in trying hard not to be argumentative and fix my flaws and this now just feels a big backwards step and slap in the face.

what is he done to fix his ‘flaws’ OP or is it just you that need to work on yourself ? Has he worked on trying to see both sides of a situation? Or not demanding you provide evidence to back up your opinions or ideas ?

He sounds inflexible, demanding and difficult and I feel stressed just reading about his behaviour and attitude. Do you feel generally positive about your future together and that you love and respect one another and committed to working through difficulties ?

I think you suggested a sensitive and sensible idea tbh. It can be very difficult for people with dementia to be in large noisy gatherings, and I can understand why you'd feel a family that liked a quiet day might not enjoy a louder one. So I genuinely can't imagine why your H took this as anything other than you being considerate of his folks. Unless possibly he is over sensitive and thought you were implying they were dull perhaps.

As far as his race comment goes, you know this man. You are married to him and closest to him than anyone. I'm sure the topic of your different races and cultures has come up at some point and you've got an idea of his views and attitudes before now? The fact that you even suspect a racist undertone is telling tbh, as this is the man you should trust 100%. Is this the first time you've had doubts?

We have just discussed it.

He said he felt offended that I didn't want his family there and was frustrated, as he has been trying to organise a joint family Christmas for three years, and then I decided I wanted my family without his which he thought was very mean and offended him (despite him never being offended by anything but he won't explain why it triggered him so much other than it sounded like I wanted an Asian only Xmas but excluding them).

He then said the reason he made the comment about "doing our own little Asian thing" was because I had said they probably wouldn't like the food (I said this because his gran openly states she doesn't like any spicy foods including Indian, and his dad, whenever he's invited over, often swirls the food on his plate). When I said this after mentioning I'll be cooking Indian food, he concluded that it's because I wanted to do my own Asian thing. And who am I to say if they'll like the food, I'm talking rubbish and it doesn't matter if they like the food or not they'll enjoy it.

I then asked why the race comment would come into it during a conversation of frustration, to which he replied he thought it was a clever play on words and he was being playful and joking. I explained that saying "to have an Asian-only Christmas" was supposedly a play on "white Christmas," and asked how that made sense when "white Christmas" refers to snow. He insists that he was trying to be clever. I questioned why he would make any kind of jokes or try to be clever at a time when he was clearly frustrated - it doesn't make sense.

He won't accept it. He won't see why I've been upset for 24 hours. He said my emotional reaction is a 10 whereas, for what happened, he would have thought it would be a 2. He just doesn't get it, and I don't really know where to go from here.

Once again, "I'm overreacting" is his standpoint, and he thinks I blow everything up that doesn't need to be.

He was also angry that I said nothing was wrong but have been deeply upset for 24 hours. I've cried and feel so hurt, he said he's angry that I'm accusing him or hurting me. He just basically thinks I'm mad

@5128gap it's not doubts he just has NO concept of racial sensitivity and issues, I've tried - real hard.

He just doesn't and can't even begin to see things from a POC perspective and just gets overwhelmed so much, it is so far from his ability to comprehend he is it thinks everything is an overreaction.

I'm so sad I don't have anyone to turn to, I really need some help.

@Shhhthedogssleeping apparently he said he's trying really hard to make me happy and I'm not in return, and he saw the Xmas thing as another example of my selfishness by excluding his family

He doesn't need to see things from a POC perspective. As a white person he could never do that. So what he does need to do is close his mouth, open his ears and his mind and let you tell him what that feels like (if you choose to) and accept and validate. His 'joke' is actually a reference to a deeply racist slogan used at one time by extreme right groups "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas". He obviously knows of this, and it beggars belief he thinks its acceptable to reverse it as a 'joke'. He has much learning to do and needs to take responsibility to educate himself.

@5128gap to be fair I didn't know it was a racist phrase and associate it with the song!

I'm sorry to have shared that with you then. Most people would indeed think of the song. It was coopted by racists to mean something different.

Your husband sounds really difficult.

Your suggestion of alternating years was not at all unreasonable and it's unfair of him to try to wriggle out of seeing your family when it's supposed to be your year with your family instead of his. I would have done the same thing in your situation.

For this year, I suggest you host everyone but delegate tasks to different people. Can you have some sort of Christmas dinner with an Asian twist? Or just have a mix of both and people can take what they want? Put your husband in charge of cooking the traditional English stuff if he feels strongly about that. It's your Christmas too and if you want to eat Indian food you are allowed to.

If mixing both sides together this year doesn't work out well, next year you can revert to separate Christmases and tell your husband that you expect fair treatment between both families. Because your wish to spend Christmas with your family is no less important than his elderly relatives' wish to spend Christmas with him, whether he is an only child or not.

He is lying—or very, very, very, stupid. I don’t think he is stupid. He is absolutely an asshole to you and he knows it. I think you should read “Why Dies He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft to figure out just which kind of asshole he is.

I think you have lost sight of something about life with your lover and partner. He is supposed to try to understand you, care about you, and soothe your distress. If after eight years he understands you so little that he “rates” distress and finds you doing it wrong that just goes to show how little he cares about you, how little he cares about what makes you tick. Sure: men are from mars/women are from venus or whatever. But we are all anthropologists in the land of our beloved—or we should be! I spent time learning about my lovely dh and he spent time learning about me. By 8 years in your dh should not only know what will distress you but should actively try to make things better. He chooses not to.

anonymousxmasposter · Today 19:07

* apparently he said he's trying really hard to make me happy and I'm not in return, and he saw the Xmas thing as another example of my selfishness by excluding his family*

would It be possible to have both families together and make traditional Christmas food for DHs parents? I totally think your idea of having both sets of rellies over separately with his DHs DF having dementia but if he thinks his DF will be ok, then I’d maybe consider food both sides will enjoy.

Im Jewish but totally something like a brunch my Jewish family would love such as gefilte fish, fish balls, chopped herring, chopped liver and rollmops might not be to everyones taste, so I’d be sure to serve other stuff as I’d not want anyone to feel they were either forcing anything down they might not like, or go home still hungry.

its telling that he was trying to ‘be clever’ with words, and to dismiss your responses as ‘over reacting’ or ‘over sensitive’. That’s really not ok at all.

Despite a pp saying I was projecting on my earlier post, since reading OPs further posts I am convinced I was on the right lines.

OP, he is using race as a stick to beat you with. He will use your hormones, your sex, large family, or just anything that is different to him. He is manipulating you into a corner where you will eventually lose your voice in this relationship. Look up the boiled frog analogy. In the meantime from the National Domestic Violence website:

https://www.thehotline.org/resources/what-is-emotional-abuse/