I don't want my sister to see my children

[Justworldfallacy]

My sister (40, single, no kids) and I (44, married, 2 kids) have never got along. Even as children we fought non stop. When my grandfather passed in 2022, my daughter's (9 and 12 at the time) attended his funeral to say goodbye. My youngest became upset and was crying. My sister turned to me and told me to "get her out of here" for crying too loudly. I was so upset at her behaviour.
Fast forward to Christmas that year. I had been made redundant earlier in the year so Christmas gifts for the family were budget friendly and mostly handmade. I got a message on boxing day from my sister about how terrible her gift was considering how much she'd spent on my girls. She also told me how my daughter had ruined Pa's funeral with her loud sobbing. Her message was highly critical of me. I was devastated and called Mum to talk, who agreed with me that her behaviour was unreasonable. I no longer wanted my children being in contact with my sister until things changed. I explicitly communicated this to my sister and parents.
No one respected that. My sister continued contacting my daughters by phone. Even using her work mobile to evade detection.
My parents ignored my request too. My kids loved staying with them over the holidays and when I called to check in one day, my sister was looking after them whilst they went out.
I expressed my concern with mum who, by now, insisted that I was the problem, not my sister.
I told mum that my kids were no longer going to her house if my sister was there. She said it was her house and she can have who ever she wants there. Fair enough I guess. So I put my foot down and said she can only see her grandkids on neutral ground such as a cafe or shopping centre only.
I see her once every four to five months now.
I hardly hear from my family now. Even my extended family thinks poorly of me. I can only imagine what's been said and what's been twisted and distorted. I got wind of a "horrible" Facebook post that didn't even exist.

As Christmas approaches there is an expectation to be at mums on Christmas Day. I don't want to go. My kids don't want to go. They don't understand why nanny changed and neither do I.

@saraclara

If her other DD would normally be free to come to the house when the children are there, it's not up to the grandmother to be the one to refuse her entrance Are we reading different posts? The OP has accepted that her mum can have who she likes in her house. She’s not asking her mum to refuse entry to anyone. In fact, she proposed a neutral venue specifically so her mum wouldn’t feel like she had to choose between her two daughter.

And if the normal happy relationship that the children had with their grandma involved visiting her house or having sleepovers, they should still be able to do so. Their aunt hasn't done anything so egregious that she's not fit to be around them I don’t know, if someone sent me an aggressive text accusing my child of ruining a funeral because they’d been crying at the death of their grandfather, I’d be wondering whether they were a suitable person to be then spending time with that child.

Being mildly snippy at a funeral when emotions are high, is not a safeguarding issue, and OP hasn't indicated that her DDs disliked their auntie until she encouraged them toIt’s not just about two minutes of mild snippiness though, is it? It’s a life time of disliking each other, it’s the aggressive text after the funeral, it’s the spiteful conversation about money spent on presents after the OP was made redundant etc. And it doesn’t have to be a safeguarding issue. Would you happily send your child off to spend time with someone who intensely disliked you? Who sent you aggressive texts accusing your children of ruining a funeral? Who judged what she’d spent on your DC in comparison to what you’d spent on her? It sounds like the sister has an inability to keep her gob shut for the sake of her mum or her nieces. Why should the OP have to just swallow whatever treatment is dished out to her and just hope her sister doesn’t say anything horrible to either of the OP’s daughters?

There's something quite creepy about an adult who insists on maintaining a relationship with a child that isn't there's when the parent says no.

You have PR not the aunt. Yet there she was, convincing children to be deceitful and talk to her without you. That teaches your children that you are not authority and you cannot protect your children if a predictor ever did prey on them.

Your mum is equally as disrespectful. Leaving your children with someone you do not have contact with or consent to have access to your children when the decision has been made by you, the mum.

How is your DH backing you?

"I expressed my concern with mum who, by now, insisted that I was the problem, not my sister."

I think you should listen to your mother. She's probably been dealing with this ridiculous bickering since she had the two of you.

Your sister said a couple of things that offended you. You escalated that off the scale to your sister having no contact with your children, and now a step further you've broken the relationship between your children and their grandparents. Shame on you.

FWIW, if a 9 year old is so distressed at a funeral that she is sobbing loud enough to disturb others, it would have been sensible to take her outside.

Storm in a teacup and everyone is stirring.

What a load of drama about not a whole lot

Take the 9 year old outside - miss the funeral yourself and leave the 12 year old at the funeral without you (the mother) in support, do you mean? Big sigh if that's what you think

Your sister sounds rude and pretty obnoxious but unless there is more to this I'd leave it and just let your DC have a relationship with their aunt. You also risk alienating yourself and your DC from your DM as well. Don't be that parent. My DM has managed to out-crazy all relatives on both sides. I don't have contact with any aunts, uncles, cousins. Even my siblings hardly talk to each other. Makes me so sad.

You remind me of my aunt OP. She was a nasty piece of work, and the only power she had over family members was banning them from seeing her kids. None of us cared if we didn’t see her, but we loved her kids, she knew that, and she exploited it. Even when her kids were adults she tried to tell family members (whichever ones she hated most at the time) that they weren’t allowed to contact them. She managed to sabotage relationships and make the whole family dysfunctional. Then she died and her kids (young adults by then) had limited family contact.

You’re being selfish, and making it all a big drama about you.

DC don’t want to see her.

Where does it say that in the OP?
I don't get that impression from the OP. OP has stated they now don't want to go to nan's for Christmas. I'm guessing because of all the unease and drama.

The OP isn't your aunt and it's not helpful to put your own previous problematic family situation on to this thread. The OP is her childrens' parent. The aunt was rude about the child's grief reaction. OP has to judge for themselves who her children should see

@GranPepper "Take the 9 year old outside - miss the funeral yourself and leave the 12 year old at the funeral without you (the mother) in support, do you mean? Big sigh if that's what you think"

A 12 year old is more than capable of sitting by themselves for 10 minutes while the mother took the younger child outside to comfort her and help her calm down. But aside from that, she wasn't alone, the aunt was there and presumably the rest of the family, since it was the grandad's funeral.

I’m surprised more people didn’t have this point of view, if you are at a parents funeral and struggling to hold it together and have a distraught sobbing child then I would have thought it would be common sense to take them outside and comfort them and remove them from a sensitive situation.

I’d like to hear the other side of this because I had similar with my sister but I’m the childfree sister. Growing up there was always rivalry between us but after my sister had her children it was harder because I was constantly pushed aside and everything became about my sister and the kids. My sister used to get jealous of any time my mum spent with me and also occasionally resented the fact I was childfree and had an easier lifestyle.
I used to spend a fortune for Christmas and birthdays for her and her kids but never got anything back, I know she struggled for money but that was thrown in my face for expecting anything, I was told that I had no idea because I had plenty of money being childfree and she had to spend all hers on her children.
She made me out to be selfish and just after a present but that wasn’t the case, the kids could have made me a card and she could have bought a small token. I was told that I was greedy and nasty when I raised this after years of it.
One year I spent £200 on the kids and my sister said she was going to say they were the gifts from Santa and that I didn’t get them anything, when I was upset and protested again I was called selfish. I lost count of the amount of times I was brushed aside or told I couldn’t understand anything as I wasn’t a parent.

One day me and my partner took her kids out for the day and they were really badly behaved all day. We took a picnic but they had a tantrum (at 8 and 12) that they wanted lunch in a restaurant, we couldn’t afford that and had spent money on the picnic. My nephew bit into all the sandwiches and spat them out because he didn’t like them and then wanted whatever my niece had and hit her when he didn’t get it. We took them to the zoo which was expensive but my nephew cried and made a huge scene when we wouldn’t buy him some tat in the gift shop.
To top things off my partner had passed his driving test the week before and was still heavily concentrating driving, he was even more nervous with the kids in the car but we promised them as soon as he passed his test we would take them out. We were going down a windy road with national speed limit and my niece was screaming loudly fighting with my nephew then my nephew started pulling my partners seat belt sharply. My partner told him several times to stop but he carried on until eventually he lost his temper. He pulled over and shouted that if they didn’t stop he wasn’t going to drive them home and we would ring their parents to get them, they sulked all the way home.
I thought my sister would appreciate that we’d tried and had to tell them off in a dangerous situation but she was livid and told everyone that we had screamed at her kids for no reason and terrified them.

We stopped speaking over it but I wanted to stay in touch with the kids, they desperately wanted to stay in touch with me so I saw them when I visited my parents. My sister did similar to OP and said she would no longer let my parents see the kids if I was there. My dad also died and I was a huge support for my mum, my sister wanted my mum to have her kids constantly but not when I was there, my mum was constantly put in the middle and hated it.

When my mum was diagnosed with cancer my sister still continued to ask my mum to choose between us and the last months of my mums life were awful as my sister wanted to continue the feud even when my mum was dying and begging her to let it go. My sister poisoned other family members against me and even though my mum was fighting the cancer the rows took a toll on her. When my sister asked her to choose between us for Christmas she died 2 days later. She told me she just wanted to give up because she couldn’t stand the arguments and being in the middle.

I have no contact with my sister or her kids, I would love to be part of my niece and nephews life - especially now as they are older but I don’t want to be in my sisters life in any way.

Obviously this is my story and not OPs but I wanted to share it because I know if my sister posted on here it’d be very similar to OPs story and so I wanted to show there are often two sides to something like this. If she was blameless then I suspect her mother would have fought harder to stay in contact and would have respected her wishes. As a pp pointed out OPs sister is likely a big support to her mum after her dad passed away and probably resents her grandchild being used as weapons against her.

I might be wrong and OPs sister sister might be a horrible person who is uncaring and selfish and better off kept away from seeing her niece and nephew, considering how hard she tried to keep in contact with them though I suspect not.

I wouldn't have ever left my 12 year old without ME in support at a funeral, let alone left them with an aunt chuntering about my 9 year old sibling's grief response. I quite understand why OP is unhappy with her sister and then the mother ignoring explicit request not to involve the sister. This may have blown over more quickly if the mother had respected OP's views

You asked your mum to make a choice - you or your sister, which wasn’t fair. You and your sister have a problem with each other, and shouldn’t be expecting mum to get involved and pick sides.

Huge sympathy with you for the peculiarly deep wounds that family can inflict.

But there is appropriate banishment and the possibility that we cut off our nose to spite our face.

If your sister has been foul - which it sounds like she has been. Maybe damage could be restricted to you both and maybe keep the rest out?

It's not easy but you felt very hurt and very disrespected. That needed to be addressed fairly before how to go forward was decided.

I think your sister should ideally have apologized given what you've described; but in my experience people who should apologize hardly ever do (!)

I tend to play a long game & my approach is too keep as many people in my kids' lives who love them as possible. I have everything to gain from a network. Of course if it's very toxic then a complete break can be necessary but what you've described sounds typical of the thoughtless cruelty of family around big events like death, marriage, redundancy etc.

I do feel for you and I wish your mum was a better mediator/diplomat.

In the long run children win with a the largest number of people close who love them. None of us know how long we have. All the best to you and I do sympathize

My sister is a pain in the arse and says really passive aggressive stuff to me. However, my DC absolutely love her and she (I think) loves them. It would be wrong of me to keep them from her (even when we're not talking). If she was ever mean to them, that would change things but their relationship with her is separate to my relationship with her.

ETA: I just read the post above mine and this line is kind of what I am trying to say:
I tend to play a long game & my approach is too keep as many people in my kids' lives who love them as possible.

Agree with this 100%!!

You chose the nuclear option in responding to your sister’s (entirely unreasonable) behaviour. It was disproportionate and it’s blown up. It all seems pretty predictable.

What did you expect to happen? Did you really think your mum would ban your sister from her house when your DDs went to stay? Depriving herself of both the companionship of one of her daughters and an extra pair of hands when she’s caring for and entertaining two young children? Did you not understand that if people took you at your word it would create a huge rift? Not just moaning and annoyance but difficulty in keeping in touch, a real deterioration in relationships, especially for your mum?

OP, your sister was unwise to have made the funeral comment and the gift comment. It was hurtful to you and totally unnecessary and it seems you are still smarting from those comments, still taking offence.

Your mum has brought you both up for the last 40 years and cared for you, - loved and cared for your children too in the same way. Her two daughters and her grandchildren must mean the world to her. I’m sure she was hoping that your offence at your sister for those two hurtful comments would eventually blow over and things would get back to normal.
Instead, you punished your mum for allowing your sister to visit and look after the children without your permission. It wasn’t wrong of your mum to allow her other daughter to visit but I feel it was wrong of her to go out and leave her in charge against your specific wishes. It wasn’t so much a safe guarding issue as a deceit issue and I understand your concerns in always needing to know who is caring for your children.
But now you find yourself with this situation where you feel awkward about visiting your parents at Christmas.

I do think you could have simply had a stern word with your mum about going against your wishes instead of never allowing the children at her house again. No wonder the children were upset. I think your mum didn’t change at all. It was you who changed the circumstances under which she could see the children and, just as you took offence at her breaking the rules you had imposed on her, she took offence at being thought not good enough for you all to visit her home. It has all escalated out of control now to the point where you imagine what’s being said about you and you are troubled by it all. I’m sure your mum is troubled by it too.

I think it’s very sad to continue this stand-off with your mum whereby you can only meet outside her home, after all these years of the care she has given you all.
It obviously troubles you so I can only guess that deep down, you wish things were different and that you all still had a normal happy and care-free relationship -with your parents at least. Could you forgive her and move past it now do you think ?

If you feel this grudge has gone on long enough, then you need to de-escalate and make the move to remove the restrictions you placed on allowing your mum to see her grandchildren in her own home. You could all visit at Christmas and if your sister is there too, be ready to be civil, calm and pleasant but not take any more nonsense from her. Rising above it all in this way is the way forward if you want to visit your parents again and have a normal relationship.

Or you could try to forget about them all, -continue to hold a grudge and enforce the restrictions on your parents, and refuse to go to visit them at Christmas as expected.
I think though, that this option will hurt you even more in the long run.
Only you know how you feel about it now. Don’t let pride get in the way OP.
All the best!

Eh? People cry at funerals! They don't leave, you goon!

OP, you've cut off your nose to spite your face. You should apologise to your Mum and make up - it's Christmas!

You should have removed a loudly sobbing 9 year old from a funeral . Not good for the 9 year old or anyone else who is grieving . Shame that you needed telling
but
The Christmas present thing was grabby. Perhaps you should have given your sister a heads up so she didn’t spend much either.

I think you have over-reacted in the first instance and your mum is trapped in the middle. Stay at homE for Christmas .

For me it's the way that the sister kept harassing these girls by phone, even using another phone after they had presumably blocked or stopped answering the first number. That's not the behaviour of a healthy, functional adult and I wouldn't want someone like that looking after my kids.

It's a shame that they can't still have a relationship with their grandmother though.

Your sister doesn’t sound like a nice person at all but you are cutting your nose off to spite your face here. You can keep contact to a minimum with your sister but so what if she happens to be there at certain times when you are also there - just speak to other family members and keep communication with her to a minimum but civilised. Your children are also old enough to make their own decision about whether they want to see their aunt or not.