To think this is an unacceptable wage?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I'm a qualified teacher with 21 years' experience who has just started supply so flexibility with a poorly husband and three kids of my own.
Just did a full day supply (8.30-3.30) and came out with £112 net.
Hubby thinks decent wage, I think piss-take!
Opinions please!

Typical Mumsnet answer from the people who pretend that a six figure salary is a pittance. That’s above average for the UK salary.

Can people stop going on about a "lunch hour".

It grinds my gears.

My school has 35 minutes for lunch, and we run interventions in that time (even though it's technically unpaid, because the interventions we run before and after school are all competing for time....)

My ex wfh in a private sector job, gets a sixty minute lunch hour he can actually eat and do things in. Sometimes he exercises. Fuck him.

I'm not sure what industry & what engineering you do but I sort of retired 2 years ago as an engineering manager on roughly £56,000 a year gross and my team were on £42,000 a year.
For the level of responsibility its not really well paid but I have just been offered a role abroad over twice what I was on in the same industry. Have a look overseas if you are ambitious.

@ItTook9Years Sounds like a cover supervisor to me - secondaries use them nearly exclusively now to save money. They're not qualified teachers, hence why they are not permitted to do certain things. It is not their fault. You only need GCSEs to become one. They also cover PPA in the main.
But most parents seem happy with class teachers being frequently covered in this way.

@ClassicalQueen Why don't you do supply then?

To clarify:
"Although cover supervisors often have experience as teaching assistants, they do not need to have a qualification in the subject/s that they are supervising. Supply teachers, on the other hand, are qualified teachers who are able to set lessons for pupils."

I can't get my head around agreeing to do a job without asking or being informed what the pay was before starting ....🤷‍♀️

It would not be unreasonable to say you think you are underpaid. It is unreasonable to pretend it's barely above minimum wage.

I'm a bit confused as to why you think the agency pay is so much worse than your main job teaching?

I've just looked up M6 teacher salary, the hourly rate is about £22/hour, and I assume that your agency pays £20/hour before tax.....

So even if you were paid the same as your main job, after tax you would've only received an £123.

The fact is your agency job will appear worse off as the whole amount will be taxed.

I agree OP, it's crap to get this amount of take home with your level of skill and experience. Sadly, the agency will be taking a very large slice off the top. If you've been teaching for 21 years, why are you not in leadership or at the very least on the UPS?

Glad you clarified re Cover Supervisors.
Many of us (not all) are QTS.
We are cut-price supply though - you are correct in that.
But as far as day-to-day goes (I'm secondary) most supply aren't necessarily covering their specialism - an agency will lie/a Cover Manager will just ask for a "general cover" a warm body if necessary as there are so many shortage subjects.
You are only really planning/marking if taking a long term assignment. It might be different for primary although I did a bit of that too back in the day and was given general planning when they weren't using the poor HLTA to do it
Cover Supervisors don't cover PPA at secondary - this is timetabled and protected as far as possible. We cover known and spontaneous absences and short-term absences.

@2boyzNosleep M6 comes out as more than that.

@GertrudeGarbo Mainly because I didn't return ft after my mat leaves.

@BehindTheSequinsandStilettos If you're QTS, why are you being employed as a Cover Supervisor and not a teacher? That seems very unfair.

That's supply for you.

Not in Northern Ireland. Vets are on 40k plus pa .

I applied for the job as advertised. It was a Cover Supervisor position.
I don't resent that (even if it sounds like I do!) as I knew I'd make positive relationships with the kids/staff that you just don't get on supply.
I wanted to work there (nice, local school) and I wanted permanent.
But yes, the pp who spoke of N Ireland provision isn't wrong, the whole Supply system in the UK could do with a rehaul.
They won't of course.
What most are missing is the uncertainty of Supply. It is why I became a CS and that is unfortunately a Support Staff scale and pro-rata. That's why you end up screwed financially.
Day-to-day Supply however is really hard if you have a family/are the breadwinner/haven't got the flexibility of commute or variable ingoings - because you earn nothing at the start and end of terms and you don't get your pay divided by 12 and paid across holidays. It can be precarious unless you are prepared to go anywhere Beirut aka special measures I am pretty sure this hasn't changed and yes, the pension is a NEST one so utterly crap.
Many do supply after early retirement, burn-out, having a family like the OP, being managed out for being expensive or, like me, having caring responsibilities. Others couldn't get jobs in less shortage subject areas/primaries so are filling in for experience.
You then get the stereotype of all supply being useless/failed/not being able to hack it/lazy etc I've met and worked with the good and the bad.
The recruitment crisis does mean you don't necessarily have all positions filled and I have filled in myself in the longer term as a non-specialist for some subjects at KS3 - you just wouldn't have known because I worked damned hard to make sure I knew the content. However there are still days when I'm struggling with day-to-day higher level cover as I don't know it and won't blag it: this is why CS are meant to be given noddy foolproof work a non-specialist can deliver but not necessarily teach.
Balancing act always.
Foolproof versus challenging. Basic bitch work is boring.
Leaving what you'd have taught: if non-specialist covering, you'll probably be reteaching it.
Copying out/wordsearches/mind maps/posters - not valued by the kids so some will act up.
And you're not their regular teacher so they'll try it on regardless.
It isn't a job for the fainthearted and you're not appreciated really by anybody - not colleagues unless you're there for the long haul/do cover supervision permanently instead, not by the kids - they'll just start plotting or groan at the sight of you, not by SLT - they know how much the agency charge, not by parents - you're just one in a long line of supply.
That's why it's not a role to relish but it can be rewarding if you like variety, like young adults, like delivering content or facilitating and have the self-discipline to leave on time!
to you all x

@BehindTheSequinsandStilettos It just seems wrong when you are a qualified teacher with QTS.

I know, much less than a teaching salary but also not the responsibility. If you get a long role you should be paid to your standard after 12 weeks, which is much more than that but ot can be a battle to get it.

Please join the Facebook supply teachers page, so much to learn about it. Xx

So, very, very rough calculations…..supply salary is equivalent to approx £43k, salaried equivalent to £45k annual gross.

This is unusual as supply is usually higher than salaried due to lack of other benefits and short notice nature of the roles.

It's a quid pro quo lovely. Everything is.
You find a compromise, what works for you.
It's not great but my choices were:

• going back into properly paid teaching part-time (half the wage, twice the hassle)
• do as much supply as possible 5x a week (impossible with the school run and wrap-around care times/also wear and tear/traffic/petrol/stress)
• hope a school offered me seconded supply (direct supply cutting out the middle man with or without finder's fee - then you've the hassle of contracts/job security/most only want CS due to budget constraints)
• becoming a "favoured" supply teacher for the school via the agent (still doesn't mean you'd be used all the time)
• taking a long-term assignment in my specialism...but you may as well be full-time permanent in that case which I can't because of caring responsibilities.

I started off doing CS part-time and doing Supply in between days but full-time CS suits me better as I know what my ingoings and outgoings are and it's a known quantity.
Should Cover Supervisors have been introduced in the first place? Probably not.
Have I added to the undervaluing of the profession by undervaluing myself? Possibly yes.
But as a mum with ND kids, I make sacrifices all the time and every day is a negotiation/compromise!

I do wish you luck though OP and hope you find a work-life balance/new opportunity or can make peace with it without feeling you've sold yourself short. Life is too short x

Gross of £200 per day is achievable. From December to April they will be screaming out. Not currently working, but have had numerous agencies asking me to work. Agencies cost teachers pay rises, but don't always pass onto supply teachers.

You’re only working 35 hours per week.

@SureLight I hope you don't mean you think class teachers only work 35 hrs p/w?!!!

@BehindTheSequinsandStilettos I totally agree with everything you've said? A work-life balance is so very important? But how do you make ends meet on CS pay?

OP says they get £140/a day gross (agency will be charging school £200)
140 x 190 available days = £26 600
£22 673 after tax in the UK
£1889 a month if they got work every single day available

This would only be higher if they worked for different authorities with different holidays so never took normal half-terms off/weren't term time only - even then, you'd still be without work for the six week holiday and would need to do exam marking or summer school.
The job itself even without planning/marking/duties - the job of actually running the room/managing children's behaviour - is stressful enough that you'd need a Summer break ask me how I know
Happy to be told if my maths is wrong (I hate covering maths fwiw!) biut equivalent is a false equivalence here as supply don't have work for 13 weeks of the year (unless you work for an agent covering five different authorities with different term times).