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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A baby red panda at Edinburgh zoo choked on her own vomit in terror at the fireworks last week

265 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 13/11/2024 23:06

Aibu to think the time has come to ban this bullshit?

OP posts:
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Notaurewhy · 14/11/2024 00:49

DancingNotDrowning · 13/11/2024 23:48

Indeed.

They are an endangered species which we are trying to protect. It is simple science.

Fedupmumofadultsons · 14/11/2024 00:51

The mother panda had died 5 days before and the baby panda choked on its on vomit probably because it's mum wasn't there to shield it from the noise poor little thing .noiseless fireworks would be best if we have to have them

DemocracyR · 14/11/2024 00:52

Abouttoblow · 14/11/2024 00:48

Guaranteed @ThisJoyousFatball is "making memories" on Instagram with not a care in the world for anyone or anything other than their fictional "Insta" life.
How dare anyone try to deprive their little cherubs of their human right to fireworks.
🙄

Or their cherub is shoving some of the family stack of fireworks through doors in Niddrie.

Notaurewhy · 14/11/2024 00:54

Ghosttofu99 · 14/11/2024 00:25

Great but people aren’t talking about banning responsibly run public shows. We are talking about weeks on end of idiots letting off their own ‘displays’ in public spaces, near others houses, or throwing them at people passing by and also dumping all their rubbish in the ground for others to deal with.

People who want to let off fireworks should be made to get a licence from the council then maybe they would take some personal responsibility.

Exactly this. The people who want to do it in their back garden should be licensed and permitted. It cost about £10 per adult and £5 per child a to go to an organised affair. The fireworks for such same display cost 15k. The back garden ones will cost about £500 to even make the imagery of those.

Moro93 · 14/11/2024 00:54

To me, fireworks belong in organised displays in places like Disneyland, not in every random’s back garden.

Notaurewhy · 14/11/2024 01:04

Enough4me · 14/11/2024 00:23

Fireworks are 20 minutes or less of 'fun' on repeat across multiple areas which harms animals and some people. It's not worth it. Surely drone shows in dedicated areas are the way forward?

This I am in with. If only I knew a good robot drone driver and lights...it's a way to go forward and make money. Lady drivers / manager of drones... This may be an enterprising way forward

Notjustabrunette · 14/11/2024 01:15

I think fireworks that people can buy to use at home should be banned. Mainly because they are dangerous and can frighten animals. I think public displays that are not held within a certain distance of where animals are kept, like a farm or zoo can be permitted.

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 01:24

@ThisJoyousFatball

Your hostility throughout this thread just makes me feel sad.

I've no doubt someone at some point will refer to you as a troll and maybe report you. The topic pertains to the death of an living creature due to something that gives less than 30 mins of fun. Not really justifiable in any way. As previous posters rightly pointed out. It has a wider impact on children and adults with neurodiversity and veterans. Some people are just scared. It's fine to have an opposing opinion but there's no need to be so goading and dismissive. Your comments are not only ignorant but it's coming across like you're enjoying provoking people.

Your responses very much present like you have incredibly low emotional intelligence. Not everyone will be an animal lover. But I imagine the majority of those people still wouldn't be comfortable with an animal being distressed. Fireworks are proven to distress lots of animals, often causing a fatal reaction. Are you really ok with that? I'm struggling with that.

I'm not going to judge you as there's always a chance your hostility is not opinion based, but a reflection of your own issues and you're using an anonymous forum to lash out and provoke people as a way to release tension or detract yourself from your own reality. Maybe it's to seek attention, maybe you have mental health issues. Or maybe you're just responding like this to get a reaction to either alleviate boredom or get a response to combat loneliness. Who knows. Maybe it's none of those things and you're just a bad person. I don't know. We can only but wonder and I suppose it's irrelevant but I would honestly urge you to think about what you've said.

I appreciate I don't know your background or what you've been through. But I will tell you my background. I don't usually discuss this element of my life but since this is anonymous I'm hopeful it might make you more considerate. I don't want sympathy, I just would like to try and make you understand.

I'm ex military. It was obviously my choice to join the military and expose myself to certain conditions and I wouldn't change that part of my life for anything. I enjoyed it. I served in 8 tours inc conflict. I returned home from a tour of Iraq in october 2024. During that tour I was shot at, lived with rpg's flying over my head, dealt with colleagues being killed, had first hand experience of IEDs and saw things I wouldn't want others to see. It may sound dramatic to you but it's quite simply fact and quickly became the norm for a lot of us. On the surface, it didn't really bother me. At the time it was a job, it fuelled adrenaline, I was young, and blasé I just cracked on. I was a lucky one who didn't get MH issues from what I saw and have a strong resilience. If anything I was a bit dead on inside and very much thought I was last person who'd have an issue.

a few weeks after my tour ended and I got back to England it was bonfire night. I was excited to be home and catch up with everyone and I've always loved a good firework (not bothered about bangs but I do very much enjoy the colours and lights and atmosphere).

After over half a year being exposed to rpgs / gunfire/ and ieds in Iraq, it become a regular part of life, I didn't understand that my normal for so long was to be on high alert. I thought I'd get back to the uk and life would go back to normal as usual after like any other tour (I'd been on tours before inc Kosovo war so not my first ball game!)

That firework night was horrific. The first bang made me drop to the floor. I was constantly on edge despite logically knowing I was safe. I thought I'd lost my mind and was embarrassed. I could write reems of how I felt that night, the lack of control, the fear. The argument in my brain that it's a fireworks night and it's fun, and the other side telling me I was under attack.

That night couldn't be over quick enough for me. I didn't tell the people I was with. I was mortified. They laughed about me dropping to the floor initially and my oddness that night was overlooked. Afterwards I dismissed it as I'd just got back to uk so just muscle memory. I wasn't bothered by what happened on tour so took it to be a one off. But it's stayed with me.

I have a DD now who unfortunately for me loves fireworks. I force myself to go for her sake but it is a mental challenge as sometimes I'm fine, just a bit jumpy, sometimes not so fine. I fight through it. Largely because I'm still embarrassed to admit they bother me and bring back memories I don't want to either remember or deal with. I had counselling and I'm generally ok, other things can trigger it but those incidents are few and far between. Fireworks night is an obvious one and at some point during fireworks and new year I know I'm going to have to deal with it.

I'm not weak person. Alot of people who know me would be very surprised by this. I keep my struggles quiet, largely because of people like you. Someone rightly pointed out that fireworks affect veterans. Your response was "Load of old cobblers". "There may be a few Johnny Rambos out there going loco in the jungle when they hear a bang"

You and your ignorance are the reason why so many veterans struggle in silence. The fear of judgment and ridicule from people like you. You might be a veteran yourself or be related to one (I doubt it) i don't know. If you are though, the military family would be extremely ashamed of you.

If you think those WW2 veterans at the remembrance parade on Sunday gone didn't have combat fatigue and at some point didn't need the silence and didn't jump at loud bangs then that's just further evidence of your ignorance.

I joined the emergency services when I left the military. Working Fireworks night if part of the job but it takes a considerable amount of mental willpower and strength to constantly tell myself it's a firework and it's ok. Being at work on fireworks night is actually easier than being at home as working keeps my head busy and detracts me from The bangs and prevent memories being provoked. I'm not loco as you so nicely say, it's a small part of me now that i accept and manage. I'd rather not have to but hey ho.

Sadly my role now means I've seen injuries from fireworks, I've had them fired at me and although theyre pretty. They are dangerous and damaging.

I would love to see fireworks banned from sale to private buyers, silent fireworks only, and only to be used an properly organised licensed events.

And for what it's worth I really love all animals and wouldn't want to see any suffer. I'd rather you missed out of the fun of hearing a loud bang than see a horse petrified in a nearby field or a dog quivering under a table.

I'm resigned to fact that you'll likely respond to this with sarcasm, belittling and dismissive comments. I'm ok with that as it says more about you than me.

Please don't at any point (if you even bother to read this) think you've upset or affected me. You haven't. I'm numb to people like you now. I wanted to reply though in hope of making you think and hopefully stop you affecting others who might either hear or read your ignorant attitude towards veterans who aren't quite as accepting of interpersonally challenged people like yourself. I'm not optimistic based on your previous response to posters very fair and justified opinions but one can but try.

JubileeJuice · 14/11/2024 01:34

I always find it very telling when people do things that they could quite easily not do, even though they know they're causing suffering to living beings.

It's usually a certain "type" that enjoy fireworks, isn't it? "I LIKE BIG BOOM. FLASHY LIGHTS GO BANG". Maybe decades ago when they were new and a novelty, but now? Really? Just another dick extension for weak men who want to have the biggest, loudest bang to impress their imaginary mates. The odd thing is, these are also the types of men who bleat on about our veterans being homeless, poppies on their FB profile, you know the type. Just goes to show they couldn't give a crap about veterans and are just racists

Also, with all the mention of veterans with PTSD, let's not forget people with non-combat PTSD, people with disabilities, people who are very ill with certain diseases, the elderly etc. Jumping out of your skin isn't very nice for them either. I have diagnosed PTSD and a few years ago before I was medicated, I was absolutely hysterical when the fireworks started. It seems silly now, looking back, but I couldn't help my brain chemistry and I really suffered.

LadyWiddiothethird · 14/11/2024 01:38

I hate fireworks,always have,even when they weren’t as loud.

Lost count of how many petitions to stop them I have signed.

beenwhereyouare · 14/11/2024 01:47

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

You're all heart and kindness, aren't you?🙁🙁🙄

coxesorangepippin · 14/11/2024 01:57

Couldn't agree more

My neighbour's son lost his eye a couple of years ago because of fireworks

So he's 19, and now blind in one eye

Rachel757677 · 14/11/2024 01:59

A baby panda choked on it's own vomit because of fireworks?

The bullshit some people come out with these days. 🤣🤣🤣

Pasithean · 14/11/2024 02:02

If the firework supporters want to pay my annual November vets bill . That would be great thanks.

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 02:06

Rachel757677 · 14/11/2024 01:59

A baby panda choked on it's own vomit because of fireworks?

The bullshit some people come out with these days. 🤣🤣🤣

Why is it bullshit?

When you search "can extreme fear make you vomit"...it comes up with this.

can cause a person to experience physical symptoms, including stomach aches, nausea, and even vomiting

If it can cause a human to vomit, why not an animal. At least with a human they have an understanding of what causes noise which might ease their fear. An animal won't understand, they'll just be scared.

We all know about dogs being so scared the owner has to get sedatives from vets why not other animals being scared?

Perfectly plausible.

JubileeJuice · 14/11/2024 02:07

Rachel757677 · 14/11/2024 01:59

A baby panda choked on it's own vomit because of fireworks?

The bullshit some people come out with these days. 🤣🤣🤣

Yes, the vets and keepers must be wrong. You must be right.

Rachel757677 · 14/11/2024 02:13

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 02:06

Why is it bullshit?

When you search "can extreme fear make you vomit"...it comes up with this.

can cause a person to experience physical symptoms, including stomach aches, nausea, and even vomiting

If it can cause a human to vomit, why not an animal. At least with a human they have an understanding of what causes noise which might ease their fear. An animal won't understand, they'll just be scared.

We all know about dogs being so scared the owner has to get sedatives from vets why not other animals being scared?

Perfectly plausible.

Plausible it may be. But that is a long way from being a fact. The poor panda could have chocked on it's own vomit for many reasons. To use it's death to promote an anti firework agenda is grasping at straws in the extreme. Sensible people will not fall for it.

Bortand · 14/11/2024 02:20

To everyone who’s sad that an animal died in terror unnecessarily, I hope you bring that to its logical conclusion, extend that thinking to the meat you eat, and stop funding animal cruelty

Firefly1987 · 14/11/2024 02:26

@Bortand I don't eat meat but at least that feeds people, what purpose do fireworks serve besides mindless entertainment for the unwashed masses?

Bortand · 14/11/2024 02:32

Firefly1987 · 14/11/2024 02:26

@Bortand I don't eat meat but at least that feeds people, what purpose do fireworks serve besides mindless entertainment for the unwashed masses?

Alright daily mail no need for the superiority

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 02:38

@Rachel757677

  1. you've just agreed it's plausible in your reply "Plausible it may be" so plausible means it can't be bullshit.

  2. can you say for certain it isn't a fact. Zoos have vets. What if vet said that was reason for death? Are we going to dispute a highly skilled professional? The article does actually say that veterinary experts made that statement. It's not a claim made by a random passer by is it? Confused

  3. it cannot be disputed that the noise of fireworks is traumatic for a considerable amount of animals. Are you ok with that? Presume not as you seems sympathetic to its death.

  4. "To use it's death to promote an anti firework agenda is grasping at straws in the extreme". Or if we look at it from a different angle, fact is animals suffer with fireworks. Can't argue with that. A decent human won't want to see an animal suffer. Also can't argue with that.
    For many years it's been highlighted what fireworks do to dogs and other animals but regardless we're still in position where fireworks are well regulated to reduce impact on our furry friends.

At no point would any sensible person think that that little baby red panda was sat in its enclosure looking up at the sky marvelling at the nice colours and clapping its little paws at the big bangs having a right good night. On the balance of probabilities, that poor animal was probably petrified at the noise it didn't understand. If there is any chance that the extreme fear caused the poor thing to vomit and then it choked on its vomit (which as YOU say is perfectly plausible) then if it's death raises awareness, grabs people's attention and encourages more people to support any action to be stricter with firework laws and regulations (which is ultimately also safer for the public as reduces risk of injury and therefore also likely reduces impact on nhs over bonfire night) then you know what, I think it's justified to highlight this in a media campaign.

  1. are you insinuating that the majority of people on hear are not Sensible People" because they believe this? Very speculative.

What isn't speculative is saying that people who think this is nonsense or ok are small minded and not thinking in the wider context and potentially lack compassion for animals.

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 02:41

Bortand · 14/11/2024 02:20

To everyone who’s sad that an animal died in terror unnecessarily, I hope you bring that to its logical conclusion, extend that thinking to the meat you eat, and stop funding animal cruelty

I'm ok then. I've been brought up as strict vegetarian by vegetarian parents and have never eaten meat. Im good to have an opinion and say it's really not ok to have animals petrified from mindless bangs for our own pleasure?

Thanks

QueSyrahSyrah · 14/11/2024 02:45

I've never understood why people want fireworks at home anyway. If they were restricted to big public displays then at least they could be planned for by animal keepers of all kinds in the local area.

The overwhelming need to piss around with explosives in your own (often small suburban) garden and let everyone for miles around know about it gives strong small-dick-swinging energy.

'I am MAN. See me make FIRE'

Bore off mate.

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/11/2024 02:47

HollyKnight · 14/11/2024 00:31

Aww look at her little face. She was just a little baby. She must have been so terrified without her mum.

That just brought me to tears. Poor little lamb. Diwali is a big thing where we life. It was so noisy this year what with bonfire night and Diwali. Normally there’s a few evenings of noice. But there have been so many new houses built in our village that there was noise pretty much every night for around a fortnight. Absolutely unnecessary when silent ones exist.

BiscottiToffee · 14/11/2024 02:49

XenoBitch · 13/11/2024 23:15

Recently read about someone who lost their horse because of the fireworks too. Stress induced colic.

Yep.

We have Guinea pigs and honestly we try to avoid both being out 4pm onwards between mid October and mid January.

It's honestly terrible.