SIL describing herself as "retired" pissing me off

[SacreBleugh]

I have recently retired. I've worked full time my entire career, as well as bringing up 4 kids. I know. Heroic.
My SIL is a SAHM to 3 grown up kids. She's had the odd temporary very part time hobby job in the 30 years I have known her. She is now also describing herself as "retired". I'm not sure why I find this irritating.

@mayorofcasterbridge
"I adore my children, but I never wanted to be a Blue Peter mother, and all the painting/baking/crawling around the floor parenting would have bored me shitless. One of my dearest friends was a SAHM for 20 years. She was well educated and qualified, and I always thought she was mad."
Were the childcarers you paid to see to your children, uneducated and unqualified, did you also think them mad for working in early years?
A lot of the language used towards SAHMs really demeans those working in early years, in catering, cleaners etc.

Nursery is generally preschool where I am so of course not doing any of afterschool things but did fabulous activities and crafty things that I’m not so good at, and made them all their meals and cleaned up after them all day so I went home to a clean house and fed happy tired children so I that respect I did find the aspect of SAHM more work. However my experience is that the mental juggle is def less as SAHM mother because you can just focus on one thing. Personally my feeling has been that staying at home was best for my children but intense for me - but that’s for my family and everyone will be different.

"CurlyhairedAssassin
On the other hand, I wonder if anyone gets to that stage looking at the nurses run ragged looking after them and thinks "Actually I didn't really pay my way enough. I didn't pay into society's coffers and I could have done. I'm lying here in a hospital bed being cared for by these hard-working nurses and I've never paid any taxes of my own towards it." Maybe some people do end up feeling a bit guilty at that."

Actually this did cross my mind. To the degree that I actually worked out how much tax dh and I would contribute if we were earning his salary between us instead of him being the sole earner. (I get this is a crude method, since it assumes no disparity between wages etc). It turned out that we would pay less tax and receive full child benefit if I worked too. In sah my family unit actually paid more into the system, even though I wasn't paying in directly myself. We also weren't taking up the limited childcare options available, although I didn't really factor that in since my parents would have continued to mind my dc, as they did when I was working.

"How many women would use such poor grammar in the workplace??"

@mayorofcasterbridge just a reminder that women are on MN, not writing their thesis! Plus, it would largely depend on what their job was - there are lots of people in ft work who can barely string a sentence together and plenty of women 'retired' from professional careers sah with their dc.

FWIW I did find sah a lot easier than balancing my career and parenthood. Maybe I'll pay for that in some other way down the line, maybe not. Life can be pretty arbitrary and I've largely done what I felt was a good idea at the time.

You say you are happy with your life choices. Yay! You do you. Not sure why you are getting so riled at on this thread though, if that's the case.

Edited for spelling, although apologies to mayor if I've missed something 😉

Every human being who goes to work or who doesn't go to work has to sacrifice something. It is literally impossible to "have it all". So defining "retirement" as a reward for the sacrifices made by people when their labour is no longer useful, required or possible would include those who work inside the home.

I'd also argue that we do all stop being full-time parents - that it is the whole purpose of parenting. When our children learn to cook, clean, drive or use public transport, go off to university or work, move out. We stop having to be a full time parent and can instead focus on the more mental and financial aspects of parenting 😁 (Until grandkids come along and then many are thrust back into the full time parent role 🤣).

I think I still disagree re the first para- but I respect and am enjoying considering your perspective on it!

And you're right, that was sloppy wording from me- I meant we never stop being parents, and for "full time parents" (I couldn't think of a better term in the moment, but I meant SAHP) their role diminishes gradually over time instead of being one day performing 40 hours labour per week towards it, and the next 0 hours labour per week.

To be fair your language isn’t acceptable in the workplace either. And I know women with PhDs, medical degrees, lawyers etc who have taken time out. Being a stay at home mother doesn’t mean a lack of intellectual, just different priorities.

@mayorofcasterbridge Do you think that the UK workplace is populated with only highly literate women employed in blue collar, high-paid corporate jobs?

This is one of my issues when people talk about how wonderful work is for women - they seem to forget about the masses of women working in low-paid, manual, service based roles. Not all women in employment are literate, able bodied or English speaking. Most people who can afford to have one parent at work are fairly middle class and educated.

Picking up on people's grammar to have a go at Stay at Home Parents is mean but also just nonsensical. You've undermined all your points by being snide.

You were the one who criticised someone’s grammar - I merely pointed out that cursing at people and insinuating they are uneducated isn’t appropriate behaviour either. I don’t know why you feel the need to pick a row with everyone on this thread but I’m not engaging with you.

Argh I’m sorry @PureBoggin - I think we were both responding to the same thing and saying it’s not okay to look down on others regardless of education or life choices!

I don't work due to disability but I don't necessarily want to go in to this with everyone I meet, I can't ever return to work, so I also describe myself as retired. Not sure why that would annoy another person?

I don’t know why either. To me it sounds petty. Whether you work in a job full time for years, or you are a stay at home mom, there are pros and cons to both. Be happy for you, to now have time to choose and to be free… be happy for her too for the same reason. You are family and have both raised children (which is the hardest job of all). Be grateful and happy for you and her… you could even meet for coffee and donuts now that you are not always busy.

Sounds very bitter, have u got too much time on yr hands, jealousy isn’t attractive.

In the gentlest possible way I suggest you look inward to find why this annoys you. Do you feel like you didn't get any thanks or praise for how hard you've worked/possibly struggled? Approach yourself with kindness. Usually these things that annoy us come from our own issues.

Whilst I was married I was a SAHM, and home educated my kids (I refuse to use the abbreviation DCs!) basically from the moment they were born till they reached ages 14/15. I worked before I had kids but never afterwards (not for "pay", anyway. I consider everything I did in the home, and the HE, as damned hard work!). Then I developed a chronic, incurable, illness, which is why my kids eventually had to attend school, and have since become unable to reliably work, (though I have attempted it, albeit unsuccessfully). Since reaching my early 60's and now being deemed "unfit for work", I consider myself "medically retired". I don't say I'm "unemployed" because that implies I'm looking for work, and I'm not. So "retired" it is. Sorry that pees you off so much.... 🤣

Oh no don't worry @Psychologymam - I totally got that.

I understand your frustration but I have sympathy for her as what else is she supposed to say? I had a very high level city career I left when I had children because my husband made so much more than I did and two parents working 65-70(what inflationist juniors would say 90-100) hours a week sometimes more and that didn't work. I haven't worked in 10 years. I don't say SAHM because even though I have young children I have a full domestic staff of nannies/houskeepers/chefs and claiming SAHM feels like stolen valor. Unemployed? I'm not as not seeking work and hold voluntary roles I spend over 20 hours a week on. When people ask what I do, I simply say "i don't" try to get a laugh then pitch my charities

If you spend 20 hours employed in voluntary work you do work.

Thank you for the gracious welcome 🙄

They were qualified in childcare, which was what I needed.

The point I was trying to make and which some of you are so steadfastly tearing apart, was that my friend had a lot to offer, and has some regrets about her choices since going back to work in her 50s with barely any pension.

Some of the posts here remind me how wise I was to avoid the school gate mums.

@mayorofcasterbridge do you often portray yourself as a victim after your poor behaviour has been highlighted?

You keep mentioning pension issues so I’m going to share some secret information with you - you don’t need to work to have one. If your partner values the work you do at home the money earned as a household can be used to build pensions for both parties.

Yes, when I was a sahp my husband split his contributions between our pensions.

Yeah sure, all of the cleaners/childcare givers etc that you were so concerned about are likely to be married to someone who can cover her pension as well as his own.

Now who is elitist???

@mayorofcasterbridge

You're argument only makes sense in your head. I have consistently said throughout this thread that for the majority of people being a stay at home parent is a privileged position.

I can hold that view and also understand that a huge number of women at work are on minimum or living wage, in receipt of benefits and don't think about their need to work as a fingers up to the patriarchy and an empowering action.

I've also been both a stay at home parent and a work from parent. I've also been someone who cleans up other people's shit from toilets and someone who sits in front of a computer. I think both are hard and I think both contribute something different to society.

You on the other hand have been unapologetically sneery towards anyone who is different to you whether that be stay at home parents, or people who don't have the same level of grammar and spelling as you, or even just people who disagree with you.

You have gone through the thread repeating your same points ad nauseum and whenever someone asks you a question or rebuts a point you've made you simply ignore their question and attack them or make a sneery comment. You said earlier that you like a good debate but your behaviour on this thread begs to differ. You don't seem to be able to cope with disagreement.

And that's my point exactly.

You: Every woman should work because of financial independence.

Me: Many, many women who work full time STILL don't have financial independence because THEY can't afford to pay into a pension and also rely on some form of state benefit. Let's fix that instead of focussing attention on those who opt out of the exploitation for a few years.