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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

1000 replies

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 14:09

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:19

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 22:14

Whilst supporting identity politics, refusing to make any real statement on emigration but the status quo and refusing say what a woman is.

You're behind the times! Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

What would you like Starmer to say on immigration?

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:20

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:19

You're behind the times! Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

What would you like Starmer to say on immigration?

You're behind the times! Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

Meaning what exactly wrt policy?

How is he 'protecting women's spaces'?

Moonlightstars · 11/11/2024 22:23

PollyPeachum · 11/11/2024 14:28

@GenerativeAIBot I saw the list of what you do support.
How are you about net zero? It seems that it is going to be very expensive to adopt these plans as quickly as Starmer & Milliband intend. We already have expensive electricity compared to all countries except Germany.

It's going to be a lot more expensive to not implement them. If you live in a flood area (especially the increasing number that won't be insurable you will know what I mean!).

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:24

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:19

You're behind the times! Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

What would you like Starmer to say on immigration?

The right don't care.

Yes, Labour backed self-ID for a time, as did the Tories, and Labour were a bit slower to abandon it - but did, several years ago.

The Tories were in power for 13 years and did nothing to protect single sex spaces (in fact, Truss made it easier and cheaper for people to get gender recognition certificates).

There is not, and has not been for years, a big difference between the Tories and Labour on actual policy around gender issues.

Sawlt · 11/11/2024 22:26

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:17

And yet Trump was just voted in over economic concerns.

I also hate the notion that identity politics are a left wing thing. The American right is peddling a radical Christian Nationalist version of their country, which runs directly contrary to the founding principles of the country. Britain voted for Brexit, against its economic interests, but based on vague notions of patriotism and Britishness. Right wing economic theory has nothing to offer 95% of either countries' populace, all they do is wage cultural, identity-politics campaigns.

… a nation of voting democratically.

Radical Christian nationalism … somehow that’s not offensive …???

Replace Christian with Muslim and then it’s racist!??

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 22:26

oakleaffy · 11/11/2024 16:33

It will be “interesting “ to see if Trump can get a handle on illegal immigration- Seems U.K. cannot, despite the disaster that is Brexit.
Brexit was entirely won on fears of illegal immigration- and now there are higher numbers than pre Brexit.

What will Trump do , exactly to stop it?

The “mass deportations “ will probably be like UK’s Rwanda idea- an expensive load of hot air.

I think you misunderstand how much power he has. He was elected to deport millions of he will do it and quickly. Agree or disagree- they will be out.

OP posts:
Lovelyview · 11/11/2024 22:26

Littlemissgobby · 11/11/2024 22:00

The thing that did upset me on the left is straight after Oct 7th people were marching for Palestine I thought that was really bad . Now I can say Israel has hone far to far but that then at that time the very next day was wrong and it showed some havd an agenda I don't agree with that even though I class myself as left centre

Edited

I think the massacre of civilians in Israel made me realise how deeply anti-Semitism was entrenched in the UK left wing media and commentariat. The way the rape of Israeli women was denied even when the footage that the terrorists had filmed themselves was released. So that was strike number one. Strike number two was finally realising that the media had been lying about 'trans' issues. Hiding the damage to women and children. Doing glossy puff pieces about Caitlyn Jenner et al and never asking the important questions. Rapist Isla Bryson who is a man who identifies as trans was called she/her and held in a women's prison. (He is now in a men's prison but still trying to get moved to a women's prison). The thought that anyone could think it acceptable to put a violent rapist in a women's prison made me realise I would in future question everything whereas previously I would accept what my side said on trust. So, The Left left me.

WhoLetTheCatIn · 11/11/2024 22:26

Littlemissgobby · 11/11/2024 22:18

So this is your post which you are kind of saying, you are going that way so I was correct and you are wrong as well.Because I am working class myself but I understand that the ills of the society is not because of migration.You can understand that.Then you need to educate yourself. Classic divide in conquer strategy and poor people like yourselves are falling for it again and this is exactly what happened in Germany. I see the same relevance going on. It always happens when the economy goes poor it's history, rinse and repeat

Listen you've just called me a right wing bigot for misinterpreting my post and insisting that I vote reform. When I do not and never will. I'm swinging to centre right because I no longer feel Labour represents my views. Scrapping of the winter fuel allowance was probably the nail in the coffin tbh. Disgraceful.

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:27

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:20

You're behind the times! Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

Meaning what exactly wrt policy?

How is he 'protecting women's spaces'?

Next to nothing so far, he's seemingly relying on the current provisions of the Equality Act as sufficient protection.

What did the Tories do in 13 years to protect women's spaces? Also nothing.

But for some reason, the criticism only gets leveled at the left.

BunfightBetty · 11/11/2024 22:27

Tandora · 11/11/2024 21:51

*The failure to realise that males are the oppressor class…, while female are the oppressed.”

Again why are you naturalising this- suggesting it is rooted in biology? Thats a really disturbing position..

don be absurd, of course it’s rooted in biology. Nobody sensible argues otherwise.

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:28

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:20

You're behind the times! Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

Meaning what exactly wrt policy?

How is he 'protecting women's spaces'?

He said that women's spaces should be protected and has said he believes in the biological reality of women. He does not want gender ideology taught in schools and Labour are backing the Cass report.

Streeting is supporting the Darlington nurses, during a recent meeting he said: "something has gone wrong’ in our society on these issues and that they have to be dealt with.

It looks like Labour are attempting to clean up the Tory mess.

Tandora · 11/11/2024 22:29

BunfightBetty · 11/11/2024 22:27

don be absurd, of course it’s rooted in biology. Nobody sensible argues otherwise.

Dear Lord help us.

BunfightBetty · 11/11/2024 22:29

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 11/11/2024 22:03

Quite. Why do there need to be sides? For what? The delineation of good and evil, correct think and wrong think?

The division is actually being perpetuated by those who’d pride themselves on their progressive inclusivity.

Edited

Absolutely. It’s not about picking a favourite football team and waving your scarf regardless of what they do.

We need to move on from this kind of childish thinking if any progress is to be made.

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:31

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:27

Next to nothing so far, he's seemingly relying on the current provisions of the Equality Act as sufficient protection.

What did the Tories do in 13 years to protect women's spaces? Also nothing.

But for some reason, the criticism only gets leveled at the left.

Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

Hardly criticism more this unwarranted praise. As you say nothing so far. What Starmer has said 'many times' is meaningless.

Worse than that it was just a way to stop the attention pre GE when JKR and others put pressure on, and people bought it for some reason.

People rejected any change to the EqA at the GE. Hopefully next time there will be policies for women and I doubt Labour will have the same polling as last time by then

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:32

Lovelyview · 11/11/2024 22:26

I think the massacre of civilians in Israel made me realise how deeply anti-Semitism was entrenched in the UK left wing media and commentariat. The way the rape of Israeli women was denied even when the footage that the terrorists had filmed themselves was released. So that was strike number one. Strike number two was finally realising that the media had been lying about 'trans' issues. Hiding the damage to women and children. Doing glossy puff pieces about Caitlyn Jenner et al and never asking the important questions. Rapist Isla Bryson who is a man who identifies as trans was called she/her and held in a women's prison. (He is now in a men's prison but still trying to get moved to a women's prison). The thought that anyone could think it acceptable to put a violent rapist in a women's prison made me realise I would in future question everything whereas previously I would accept what my side said on trust. So, The Left left me.

All that happened under the Tories. Labour have only been in for a few months yet you seem to be blaming them for stuff that happened when they weren't in power.

Are you confused?

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:32

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:28

He said that women's spaces should be protected and has said he believes in the biological reality of women. He does not want gender ideology taught in schools and Labour are backing the Cass report.

Streeting is supporting the Darlington nurses, during a recent meeting he said: "something has gone wrong’ in our society on these issues and that they have to be dealt with.

It looks like Labour are attempting to clean up the Tory mess.

He said that women's spaces should be protected

Which spaces and how?

The GRA is Labour's mess.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 22:33

Tandora · 11/11/2024 21:37

Le sigh. 😮‍💨 😔

All I can suggest is that you read some more academic and scientific papers about different understandings of sex and gender.

I suggest you do. You seem to know naff all on either.

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:35

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:31

Starmer has said many times that biology is important and that protecting women's spaces are important as have other members of the Labour party.

Hardly criticism more this unwarranted praise. As you say nothing so far. What Starmer has said 'many times' is meaningless.

Worse than that it was just a way to stop the attention pre GE when JKR and others put pressure on, and people bought it for some reason.

People rejected any change to the EqA at the GE. Hopefully next time there will be policies for women and I doubt Labour will have the same polling as last time by then

To be fair, Labour's pivot on single sex spaces came long before the GE, and the right wing were saying that Starmer/Labour would take away women's spaces- they were saying they would not and so far they have not. The law is as unchanged as it was under 13 years of the Tories.

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:37

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:32

He said that women's spaces should be protected

Which spaces and how?

The GRA is Labour's mess.

Labour didn't want the GRA though, did they? They implemented it after they lost a case in the European Court of Human Rights.

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:37

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:32

He said that women's spaces should be protected

Which spaces and how?

The GRA is Labour's mess.

Spaces such as changing rooms, toilets and refuges. Spaces solely for women. Protected by law under the EA.

The GRA was brought in under Labour because the government were found to be breaking the law under the ECHR and other discrimination laws in several court cases.

The Tories haven't promised to get rid off the GRA and nor did they during the 14 years they were in power.

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:38

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:35

To be fair, Labour's pivot on single sex spaces came long before the GE, and the right wing were saying that Starmer/Labour would take away women's spaces- they were saying they would not and so far they have not. The law is as unchanged as it was under 13 years of the Tories.

Luckily women put some pressure on, including due to Bryson. Reading some pp you'd think loyalty was more to Labour over any sort of pressure to change

Tg it hasn't been left to that

Tandora · 11/11/2024 22:38

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 22:33

I suggest you do. You seem to know naff all on either.

I suggest you do

indeed, this is how I spend a significant part of my time.

RunningOutOfImaginitiveUsernames · 11/11/2024 22:40

I am horrified that some people think it’s fine to produce and illustrate books aimed at young children with images of people in bondage and with scars from removal of healthy breasts.

I read things like this mentioned often, but I've never seen or heard any of it and I have school aged children. Can anyone point me in the direction of this material?

Also about the food prices rising under Biden, I thought that was wide spread as we in the UK had the same problem under Conservatives?

CraftyPlumViewer · 11/11/2024 22:40

username7891 · 11/11/2024 22:37

Spaces such as changing rooms, toilets and refuges. Spaces solely for women. Protected by law under the EA.

The GRA was brought in under Labour because the government were found to be breaking the law under the ECHR and other discrimination laws in several court cases.

The Tories haven't promised to get rid off the GRA and nor did they during the 14 years they were in power.

This is the double standard the left face.

The Tories are more willing to say "of course women don't have penises" - and that's enough to placate many people - but in terms of actual lawmaking they do fuck all.

You'd think the party who actually openly profess that sex is biological, and who were actually in government, to be held to the higher standard - but alas, no.

BunfightBetty · 11/11/2024 22:40

Tandora · 11/11/2024 22:29

Dear Lord help us.

I think that every time I read one of your posts, @Tandora.

If you can’t grasp the bleeding obvious, that males have made themselves dominant, and the patriarchy has arisen, because they have unfairly taken advantage of the difference in physical size and strength between the sexes, then dear Lord helps us, I don’t know what to say to you.

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