I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

There a lot of criticism of your DIL here. I imagine this reflects real life from things you’ve said and she’s had enough. Just the way you have written it comes across as you trying to be all reasonable whilst portraying her as unreasonable, but the tone underlying is that you are judging her, looking down on her and thinking you know better.

Her parenting style wouldn’t be mine but that’s not important. You need to stop or you run the risk of never seeing any of them again.

I think none of that helped for sure. I arrived with spare furniture for them and helped with boxes and final unpacking.
I honestly did not tell them I thought they were doing anything wrong but neither did I think I'd done wrong either!

And you don’t get a lot of support from your peer group when you’re trying to juggle children and get ones used to cot naps to switch to pram naps at a big event!

I’ve done the cosleep, breastfeed on demand, sling nap baby who then wakes hourly all night, and it’s equally isolating because you’re tired and trying to fit in all the stuff you need to do without the break of a cot nap. I’ve also done the gently sleep train, breastfeed to a routine once established, cot nap baby who sleeps through, and yes it’s isolating to have to rush home for your rigid routine but the sleep is life changing, and my children preferred cot naps and hated pram naps. A grandparent keeping the kid out for a meal without discussion would have a huge knock-on effect on sleep, mood, appetite. Grandparent buggers off home and parents are left to deal with the fallout.

DIL might sound a little rigid – blankets are fine at 3, I absolutely stick my kids in bed with me when they wake – but rigidity is generally a “what works best for these kids?” response. Two under five is exhausting and most parents set rules to cope with that, not as arbitrary choices. Being constantly subtly undermined is also exhausting.

To be fair, he may have thought his Dad was in the room - see my pp

But surely routine is even more important when there’s been upheaval. I mean, common sense would suggest that.

And yes my 3 year old napped in a pushchair but it wasn’t the same quality of sleep (I wouldn’t sleep as well being carted around in the open air on a moving chair as I would in my own bed, would I?) and would be low level cranky afterwards. Just what one needs at an all day Christmas thing when there is another smaller needier baby.

And OP still hasn’t told us why she judged poor DIL for not enjoying breastfeeding. She was doing it and persevering. Now she has to enjoy it as well or else she’s a bad mum?!

I think her parenting is fine. These are happy, secure little boys. I think the difficulty comes because of the different way we do things and me not always understanding what she wants or getting it wrong.
Also I suppose I feel I am trying to help her although I get she might not feel that from what ppl have said

I think you both sound kind of unreasonable TBH but since it’s their house, do what they want.

My parents always suspended some of the rules when family was visiting. We could stay up a little later, have ‘sugar cereal’ for breakfast with our cousins etc.

I don’t understand the move to rigid parenting generally. But it’s her home so follow her rules.

Honestly nobody HAS to enjoy breastfeeding. It's just sad for her that she doesnt. She always looks tense so hats off to her. It's admirable!

Yup.
I think we were probably both unreasonable in the moment but we are usually reasonable people.
I'm backing off for a bit then hoping things will send.

I think I’d be tense knowing my judgy MIL, who constantly says “I’ve raised 4 kids!”, was observing and silently critiquing my feeds. Your DIL knows.

I have a baby son and I worry he will meet someone who sleep trains and has a different parenting style to my family. I would struggle in your situation. I have the opposite problem with my in laws who didn't really understand about breastfeeding etc. it's all the rage nowadays to be fixated and very regimented with nap time. As they get older it's supposed to be easier to deal with interfering MIL because you aren't at the newborn stage any more.

What does your son say? Does he just go along with her methods? Does he have his own opinion? Maybe let it blow over, can your son visit you without his wife sometimes. That would be preferable to me as then I don't have to witness what my MIL gets up to as as long as they know and love her I suppose I wouldn't mind. Maybe she's got residual anger from feeling judged in the newborn stage. It's a precarious time.

Why is it sad for her?! She looks tense because she has a toddler, a baby, a new house move and a guest who is judgy. I would be looking tense too.

What does ‘I am sad for her she didn’t enjoy breastfeeding’ even mean. I don’t like going to parks, my friend does. Is she sad for me?
I love playing board games. Plenty of my friends don’t. Am I sad for them?
Feeling ‘sad’ about someone not enjoying something they are persevering with, which is not inconveniencing you in ANY way is a very weird emotion. And I am willing to bet that DIL knows you judge her for not ‘enjoying’ breastfeeding.

…you worry that your baby son will some day meet someone who has a different parenting style to you? What?

Yes of the many things I worried about…the future parenting choices of my baby’s partner was not one of them. MN is a very strange place.

@nationalsausagefund YES! I breastfed and co-slept with one and shoved a boob in his mouth and he slept badly and I slept badly and I was perpetually tired. I thought I was feeding responsively but in hindsight (he’s 13 now…) I think I was not helping him connect his sleep cycles and making him think he needed milk every single time he woke up.

And then with no 2 I was a bit firmer with myself about cot naps and routines (while breastfeeding and co-sleeping at night) and actually he slept better and I parented better. And I also managed that with gentle sleep training that didn’t involve hysterical crying (or any crying).

Firstly your son was annoyed and ‘short’ with you so why is the issue just with your DIL?

Taking a child downstairs in the middle of the night is ridiculous and I’d have been fuming too. How cold can he really have got walking around the house. The correct response is sleeping bag back on, minimal chat, cuddle for a quick warm and back in bed. Parenting young children is brutal and routine and rules are sometimes what helps parents to cope. A middle of the night get up could throw them for weeks…when the child is wanting to go downstairs four nights later but grandma isn’t there….just your poor DIL who is probably working the next day or dealing with other children.

And that’s the point with all the routine. Yes it might not matter the day you are there, the child might cope with a shorter nap etc but what trail of destruction are you happily leaving behind you that they have to undo? How sad that your ‘help’ is making their lives harder, not easier.

’ive raised four children’ implies you know best. You don’t. It’s irrelevant. You DIL is raising her child how she wants to. Other people’s experiences are theirs. She probably trusts you to keep them safe which is where your experience comes in, but you need to follow what works for them and their family in the here and now.

You need to back off and apologise before you damage your relationship forever. I’m sure your son feels very hurt about why you cannot support him and his wife without judgement. Don’t you remember how hard the young years are?!! Or do you just look back with rose tinted glasses smugly reminiscing about your exceptional parenting skills.

@TiredRetired your dil sounds like a control freak to me.
What a joyless childhood when gp’s can’t take a dc out of routine for a day.

I had an ex sil like this, it wasn’t about what was best for the dc it was about controlling her whole family, she too had few friends.

Unfortunately op you have to suck it up and be there for your dgs’s.
My dm was a mw and sat like a dc regularly whilst ex sil told her off.
At least though dm got to be present in her dgc lives.

Op, you're not getting the message! It's this constant behaviour of you thinking it's your place to point things out/do what you think is best that has brought this situation about. It will be the build up of your dil constantly feeling undermined and judged by you and she (rightly imo) has had enough. You've got to wind your neck in and realise it isn't about what you think or prefer now, you're not centre stage anymore. You're a supporting actor who comes on to support the show occasionally. Please take note of all the above responses who are trying to help you.

Routine and consistency is the most important thing for well-behaved kids. Well-behaved kids means that the years to come will be full of fun because they can go anywhere free of problems.
You consistently pushing the boundaries the children's parents have agreed on must be driving them nuts. You can't mix and match parenting styles, that just equals a chaotic mess with kids not knowing what's what.
This sounds like overkill but if it's been a consistent issue over time then I suspect it was the final straw that broke the camel's back.
Get back in your box about raising your own kids. Well done. These aren't your kids.

I think the DIL is too strict and rigid in her routine . But I don’t know how much you actually interfere . I think there is more to this . I have more leeway with my DGC but I never offer or speak my mind about some things because it’s not my place .

You sound like my MIL, constantly thinking that she knows best when it comes to raising my children. Regardless of how or when you raised children she is their mother and ultimately knows best unless she asks you otherwise. My kids are 21 and 15 now and she still thinks her way is best, which has constantly made me think I’m not good enough for her son or grandkids. Honestly I love her son but I’ve seen and heard how she brought them up and she definitely has a cheek.

@Thebellofstclements is that your view or actual verified research?

I personally think effective communication is more important but that's just my opinion.

Because they didn't have any outlined rules for what to do if the kid woke up frozen? She's a loving grandma and got treated like crap.

The responses here are harsh. If the parents are so faultless and unknowing maybe they should turn up the damn heat. She only took him downstairs bc his room was cold.

I parent differently to my mum/dad and my mil but I’d never stop them seeing my child because they do things differently. Yes it annoys me inside that my mil feeds her so much sugar (thinking of one thing that annoys me) but I know mil loves my child unconditionally and that is the only thing that matters.
your dil sounds painful to me. No advice but I don’t think you’re being unfair.

it was a bit of an odd choice to sleep on the sofa with him, but her reaction was OTT. I was the same as you and co-slept but some mothers are very strict on routine. A bit too much in my opinion, but their child, their decision. My mother made some comments over the years about me co-sleeping (they will never sleep in their own bed) breastfeeding comments (how do you know they will get enough milk before bed etc), and many around tantrums etc. I just ignored to avoid an argument as my mother is the type to start crying and make everything about her. I’m sure once things settle it will be ok. Send your DIL a text in a couple of days to apologise again, admit you overstepped. Hopefully she will calm down and realise she was a bit OTT.

Your grandson will now continue to get up and want to go downstairs, all the work they have done to settle him at night will be wasted, and they are likely to be exhausted trying to correct this. Why would you do that? They have expressly asked you not to.

You don’t agree with their parenting, although you never seem to direct your criticism at your son, and their lives are completely different to yours!

An orderly life is exactly what your son has chosen. Maybe he didn’t enjoy his childhood with no rules and likes the anchor of routine and boundaries. Otherwise he would be raising his child differently.

You seem to think your way is the right way, and you are overriding their decisions and authority.

I think you have been doing this repeatedly undermining your dil for years.