I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Hang on this poor woman breastfed diligently but because she didn’t ‘enjoy’ it as much as you, you are holding it against her. I also breastfeed two kids- can’t say I enjoyed it greatly- and it came very easily and naturally to me. It was just a way of feeding for me. There were many other things I enjoyed far more.
So this poor woman can’t get anything right in your eyes. Even when she carries on breastfeeding with your advice, she now has to enjoy it to earn your approval?!
That statement I think reveals a lot more about you and your attitude than you realise.

I suppose I think she sometimes doesn't do herself any favours as the rigidity of meal and nap times isolate her from other Mums and their support. Any effort I make to point this out though ( I try to be subtle) gets interpreted as criticism of as you say, over riding or invalidating her.

Since you know how it will make her feel why do you bring things up? It is criticism of her parenting and it comes across clearly that you think she's wrong. Motherhood in the early years isn't enjoyable for every mum, that's not her fault, but you sound like you blame her for this and for not taking your subtle advice. If you don't actually dislike her or feel she's doing motherhood all wrong then you might want to take a look at how you're coming across, because your posts are full of disdain for her and her parenting. You don't know why she parents the way she does, she is not abusing her children or neglecting them, so you need to respect the parenting choices your DIL AND DS have made, stop criticising and stop trying to give advice no matter how subtly you think you're doing those things. You know she has a routine and this is very important to her, so stop disrespecting that, don't decide you're just having lunch out when you know it breaks the routine then get peeved when she says no, just stick to the routine. It's not hard to do. Her reaction over you not returning DC to their bed sounds like that was the last straw for her, why do you feel you have the right to undermine their parenting? The way she's parenting wouldn't have been right for my kids, but I don't pretend I know how to raise children other than my own. Maybe this is what her DC need, maybe she is being rigid and making things harder for herself but that's none of your business because you're not DGCs parent.

I think maybe you're right as it seemed an over the top reaction.
Quite possibly I might have come across as undermining her - I can see that from a few posts but it was not intended.
I also think she is hugely tired and perhaps doubting herself. She doesn't seem to have a circle of Mum friends and relies on WhatsAp with my daughter and niece who parent like I did so tend to give her the same vibe I do. Think the routine thing maybe comes from her Mum so she's pulled in two directions.
Sorry, long response because I'm thinking it out as we go along.

Rather, I think the OP has sussed out DIL!

“Any effort I make to point this out though ( I try to be subtle) gets interpreted as criticism of as you say, over riding or invalidating her.”

That’s because it is criticism, overriding and invalidating her.

You should not be pointing out to her that you think her set routines for meal times and nap times are too rigid and isolating her from other mums. That is completely unacceptable. And I understand why she and your son are upset with you.

I worked in early childhood settings for almost two decades. I have worked with quite a diversity of families (including grandparents in some of the families). It is really important to respect their family unit, how they do things and what works for them. I was taught during my training that parents know their children best.

I am well aware that set routines provide predictability and that young children really benefit from having predictable set routines. It might seem rigid to you, but your son and your Dil know what works best for their children. Some children cope well with a flexible routine. Some children don’t. With some children if any part of their routine is deviated from it causes problems for them that can last all day and all night. They can feel anxious, grumpy, disrupted and unsettled. It can affect their ability to sleep through for the night. And their sleep could be impacted for days or even a week. Then there is all this extra work for the parents to help resettle their child/ren. For example having to get up through the night when previously their child was sleeping through the night.

Your son and Dil sound like great parents. Instead of criticising them and undermining them (which is what you are doing) or offering unsolicited advice, tell them that they are great parents and doing an amazing job.

Meanwhile I breastfed and co-slept and as soon as I could had quite a strict routine because it helped me cope, gave DS’s day some structure. There is a broad spectrum between your crunchy parenting and some Gina Ford like routine.

The grandmother/MIL who occasionally FaceTimes but turns up once in a while to tell me how to parent my child better would drive me nuts.

They did let you take their kid out so you decided to trample on their boundaries by not feeding him at the right time (hangry toddler, possibly then missing nap time with a knock on effect for an already tired mum). This kind of ‘help’ is often for the benefit of the helper aka you but doesn’t actually help mum.

And all parents of 2 under 3, even the most placid of babies is tired and stressed. That’s the default. Then offering advice on how she could parent better isn’t going to make her LESS tired and stressed. It’s going to make her more irritable and tired and stressed.

And what does ‘why can’t I be a different grandma’ even mean? The one who comes in, upsets their routines and swans back home to allow the parents to deal with the fallout?!

Why did you dislike her when this happened? She didn’t do anything wrong.

I agree with the way your DIL parents, co sleeping is unsafe as is having blankets, sounds like you don’t agree/ believe in this though.

Their DC will now expect to be taken downstairs when they wake up in the night. You should have put them straight to bed, or woke your son/ DIL up.

Also the fact that you’ve said co sleeping would have been the best thing in your opinion really undermines her. You sound really negative about the way they parent, as though you disagree with everything, I can understand why they wouldn’t want you around their DC.

I coslept and it was still the hardest part of the early years for me. Try a colicky baby who doesn't sleep for more than 45 minutes at a time for 14 months and then come back and tell me sleep isn't hard. All you can really say is what were the hard bits of parenting for you. Personally I have no trouble understanding that something that was easy for me could be hard for other parents.

Think you're spot on with the first half of this. Early years of parenting are impossibly hard. But then, I'm in it and biased!

Suspect the best thing you can do is give some space, apologise if you're willing, and have an open chat about what you can do for them in future that could be helpful. Hopefully you can repair the relationship, with a bit of give each side.

What a load of actual nonsense! There are safe ways to co-sleep! Plus a 3 year old is not at any risk!

I had three colicky babies so you are preaching to the choir!

Finally, she doesn’t need a big circle of Mum friends. I didn’t have that. Maybe you did. She has her parents nearby. In fact she has you and her SIL telling her ‘subtly’ (as you keep saying, I am 100% sure you are not remotely subtle) how she could parent differently.

Actually as someone who breastfed and co-slept, I think very strict routines with a toddler whose life has been upended by a newborn is probably a very good thing. It gives him stability and structure at a time of uncertainty.
Well done to your DIL for making difficult parenting choices keeping her children’s needs in mind rather than trying to please random relatives who feel they know better.

It’s never safe for a baby IMO (I know about the ‘safe’ ways to co sleep). It’s fine for a 3 year old, that doesn’t matter though because her DIL doesn’t agree with it. OPs son and DIL are the parents.

I think it says a lot that he came to you and not his parents.

She sounds like most parents these days. Overly uptight and anxious about the slightest thing.

I think it's difficult being the grandparent when you are the parent of the husband because they don't tend to call the shots when it comes to routines.

You are probably going to have to back off until she has a second then she will be less neurotic.

I safely co-slept with 3 babies in turn.

She has a 2nd!!

Their bedroom is downstairs. I was trying to let them get an uninterrupted nights sleep. They also have a 7 month old

Hang on. So they're downstairs while a cold awake three year old in the dormer climbs out of his sleeping bag and cot and wanders around.

There's something odd here. Assuming this is real the DIL should be worrying about that far more than about a blanket being a suffocation risk.

I really have often told them that. I do think they are great parents but I also know the intensity of two little ones and how tired my DIL looks.
PP has pointed out that, even so, it's not my business. I'm getting that. We are all trying to learn from this.
To be specific I'm not in any way point blank telling her that routines are too rigid. She was telling me that she couldn't go to an all day Xmas thing with her NcT group because of nap times so I just suggested he perhaps sleep in the pushchair. Best resource mother's have is the peer support from other Mums in the same boat don't you think?

No I'm not, your response makes it obvious that you don't get it. If you got it your reply that I quoted would have been different. I doubt our colicky babies were anything alike, there's no way you were getting as little sleep as I did and could deny the idea that sleep can be the hardest part of parenting. Thats different from saying it was the hardest bit for you. All of mine barley slept, but after our first anything else seemed good by comparison.

Who can go to an all day Christmas thing with a 3 year old and a baby?
The correct answer is: yes, this too shall pass and you’ll get a semblance of your life back.
Not, ‘if you parented differently you could!’

No there are many other resources for Mums- MN is literally full of people saying how they find other mums judgemental, unfriendly and the baby groups to be unfriendly. So no, it is not always true!

Some people really suck all the joy out of parenting. With the rigidity and uptightness. They sound pretty unbearable to be honest. Take a step back.

i am not particularly fond of my mother in law but if my daughter was cold and she cuddled her back to sleep I’d be nothing but grateful for the love and care that she has shown her.

Yes they've just moved in and there's only a single bed in the room I was in. They were downstairs in what will be spare double room.
Dads been sleeping up there next to gs until new double bed arrives this week
Sorry. Complicated

Oh wait. They have a toddler, a baby, have just moved house. And now the grandparent who doesn’t live close by (and with whom the son doesn’t have a close relationship) has arrived to tell them what they are doing wrong. Absolutely perfect. I wonder why they aren’t more grateful for the advice?! Hmmm…

Do you really think that hadn't occurred to her? That's what you think support is, but she didn't ask for solutions. Sometimes support is listening and acknowledging rather than trying to fix. You know the routine is really important to her so treat it as fact. Empathise, don't try to fix, don't advise if unasked. You know how she feels when you reply this way so don't reply this way.