I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

My point being was that just because you're older and you've had 4 children doesn't make you wiser, right or experienced. There are plenty of women who have children and abandon them. That doesn't make them experienced. The OP has already said she's had difficulty rasing her son. She's probably trying to make amends and trying round 2 with his sons family.

Im not young or patronising but im younger than you. You sound older and judgemental.

This thread is littered with 'advice' to the op on how to manage her dil, usually by skivvying and apologising for breathing.
And @Cyb3rg4l no I don't mean mothers parenting their children - I mean using their position as mothers to deny access to GPs who don't tie the line and go exactly what the mother wants at all times! I don't mean reducing access to those GPs who are dangerous or who bad mouth the parents, but to reduce contact with loving, largely supportive GPs who commit heinous crimes like taking a child to a cafe instead of home for lunch or who comfort a cold distressed child in the night instead of waking the parents.

Gosh what weird woman 😱

My in-laws were seriously bloody annoying at times. And my own mother is one of the least tactful women I've ever met. But they loved their grandchildren, enriched their lives, partly by virtue of being different from me and giving the kids different experiences and perspectives. It's a good thing to not be so rigid because life will make you bend, one way or the other.
My dc remember so fondly the days of being given too much sugar and no rules, just as I remember this fondly from my own grandparents. Of course mum's and dads can't allow gps to run amok and genuinely undermine. But I do think in this particular situation dil has lost perspective and overreacted to a grandma who appears largely helpful (even if she isn't perfect).

Dad weaponised it imo and son became critical of me when at home which was on top of usual teenage angst. I worry he seems quite closed off emotionally but that's all the men in my family and my ex so he didn't stand much chance.

Or perhaps you deserved some criticism. Your posts all read as 'poor me, I only did this and silly DIL and downtrodded DS had a go at me because it wasnt in line with their wrong rules'.

You need to keep your opinions to yourself unless explicitly asked for help. You disrupted the childs sleep routine. You are full of judgement. And on course to wreck your relationships.

"Or perhaps you deserved some criticism."

Does the irony of this escape you? Making this statement and in the next breath telling OP to keep her opinions up herself.
It's never okay for a parent to badmouth the other parent, since children are half of each one and parental alienation can damage them at a core level.
It's far worse than anything OP has done.

I think that depends on the details of the situation. If I'm expecting my child back at 12 and you come back at 1 because you took them to a cafe for lunch, I'm not going to be happy with that. I'm probably not going to be happy if I've prepared lunch and it goes to waste because plans changed on me, without me knowing what was happening. If I've said no cafe, it's no cafe.

I once 'let' my PIL take the children to the park down the road and told them I'd let them know when lunch was ready. When lunch was ready, they were nowhere to be found because they'd decided to go for a walk. I had no idea where they were, when they'd be back, and that wasn't what I agreed to. One was a young baby in need of nursing. I want to know where my children are. You think they got to take them to the park again? (It wasn't a one off that could be discussed, it was a pattern of doing whatever the heck they wanted because they were the grandparents).

'Fact check'

But we only have the OP's version of what happened here, we haven't heard the DIL's perspective.
How can you possibly comment on what the 'facts' are?

I know with my MIL she is literally obsessed with everyone being cold when they are just normal temperature. In her culture mothers and newborns don't even leave the house for the first 40 days so she had the most epic meltdown when I insisted I was going out for a walk with DD (completely wrapped up and cosy in her pram) when she was a week old, shouting at DH in her native language that DD was going to freeze to death and i was risking her life.
And the number of times we disagreed because DD would be perfectly fine in her layers and sleeping bag but MIL would keep secretly waking her up to add extra layers or blankets going directly against my wishes because she said DD was 'freezing cold" (she wasn't at all). This would be to the point that DD would be literally sweating profusely and burning hot.
I had to print off a load of info on the dangers of babies overheating and suffocation etc but, even then, it was clear she thought I was just a crazy foreigner who didn't know how to look after a baby.

Things have settled down a lot since then and we both make an effort to understand each other more now but there are still occasional things we fundamentally disagree on. If you asked her though I'm sure she'd describe it all completely differently to how i would.

Yes that's fair @LilacTurtle - a parent should know where their children are and id agree that a grandparent has no right up just take them somewhere else without discussion.
I was thinking re lunch that dil is strict about meal times and mil was thinking it's okay to extend a trip out and do the cafe thing because she still adhering to the lunch time iyswim. That would depend on the specifics of the situation I agree.

The child is 3!

She just needs to show the child where his parents are. That's all. She stays at their house a couple of times a year. She isn't in a position if responsibility. She doesn't need to wake the parents herself, warm the child or be worried or anything else. She doesn't need to make any kind of decision about this. It's not her problem if no one else can look after the child at night (and probably they can - just not the OP).

I absolutely judged your other post. You're talking as if every single 'older' person is utterly clueless about children. Very patronising.

Yeah I don't understand why people are going on about modern parenting being different when DIL.sounds like she's parenting from the 1950s.

Poor kid not allowed a blanket! Obviously a three year old isn't going to suffocate. Most three year olds are in a bed with a duvet.

100% this! Well said.

this little boy is getting colder and colder as this thread goes on.

the Op @TiredRetired actually first said ' his hands and feet were like ice.'

so if the Op had returned the child back to his bedroom, rubbed his little hands a bit and popped his sleeping bag back on his feet would have warmed up.

However I am surprised a 3 year old is climbing out of a cot ? does the Op mean a cot bed ?

I can't imagine living life so rigidly but if my DIL was strict about meal times, I'd make sure they were back on time.

With the cafe thing, I'd expect a grandparent to check if it's okay (even just so I know not to prepare lunch), especially if it means they will be out past the time I expect them back. If I trust them enough to be out with my child, I can't see why that would be a problem.

My MIL might think she can just do whatever she wants, but I prefer communication (I just like to know what's happening and it helps me organise). So she should do it, even if she thinks she shouldn't have to.

I think, by the time most people get to the stage they're keeping their distance, there's a lot of little incidences that add up. OP's DIL has said, "What more do I have to do?" and "..so now...". That suggests the DIL feels there's a long history of incidences there. I don't know if she's reasonable or not, she's not here to share her side.

Criticism can be constructive - it's not always undermining! The attitude to older women stinks sometimes!

No, she was told no blankets allowed.

So you had been doing them a favour, and the thanks you got was a bollocking for trying to help? Fuck that!

When you don’t follow the parental rules you are disrespecting the parents and demonstrating you cannot be trusted. And if you can’t be trusted to follow the parental rules why would parents trust you with the care of their children? A nanny doing the same thing would be sacked.

GPs need to accept that access to GC is a privilege not a right, and if you break trust with the parents that privilege can be withdrawn or reduced to supervised access only at a time convenient to the parents. Which is always sad but sometimes necessary.

GPs are sure to have opinions of their own based on their experience of their own children and whatever child rearing advice they followed at the time but that is not relevant in relation to other people’s children in modern times. However much you may feel otherwise, it is not helpful.

Unless they are expressly asked for child rearing advice GPS should keep their opinions to themselves to avoid being seen as interfering and damaging relations. Not because it is ‘pandering’ but because it respects the right of parents to know what is best for their child. If the parents are stuck, they know where you are and are more likely to ask for help if you have a good relationship built on trust.

If the mil brings nothing positive to the relationship, then why would the Dil want to see them? Lots of people get on great with their mil so clearly it's possible to be a good one. Being generally supportive, good company and doing a fair share of chores while you are staying with someone is what I would expect from any guest family or not. If you like someone it's not difficult.
I think to go in and criticise and then expect them to want to welcome you in is a bit dim really. They might put up with you out of duty. Is that really what you want?

If OP was looking after the child on a regular basis that's a bit of a difference situation but here she is literally a guest in their home.

Well you do that, and it's your kids who miss out on a relationship with the only people in the world who love them nearly as much as their mum and dad.

God this is bleak. It's a family member not paid staff. "A nanny would have been sacked"

"Supervised access?" Have social services been involved?!

That's just nuts.

What are they going to do, aside from warm him up and put him back to bed?

Plus if the issue is interrupting his night, which some seem to think, it would be an even worse interruption.

It's about the only option the son and DIL have left, but it's incredibly stupid and senseless.

That's a load of rubbish. I have grandchildren and friends who have grandchildren (all via our sons) and we all have good relationships with our DILs, none of whom expect us to supply meals, do laundry or run around doing the grunt work. None of us ever criticise our DILs' or our sons' parenting, even if they do things differently from how we did it.

It's not that hard to be a decent MIL.