I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Nightmare! You win (gladly lol!)

@letthemalldoone
No it's not some random kid, but she's not the child's mother. There should absolutely be boundaries around who children spend the night with.
It's not showing respect or grace because she clearly disapproves of their parenting method and is evidently letting it show.
I don't see how the son or DIL have done anything wrong in this situation.

Wait wait - I think you and I are on the same page & my quoted post has been misunderstood 🙏

TBH I wouldn't even go there! I think it's safer if the OP holds her counsel!

And I don't believe the MIL has either.

I think the DIL had a cheek on her chastising her!

Listen to yourself, "boundaries around who children spend the night with" - this isn't some randomer here but the child's loving granny, and in any case, he wasn't spending the night with her because she's not allowed to do that!

i have a DC that needed a routine, she was a nightmare if she was overtired and she needed a solid nap in her cot, she thrived off her routine and I didn’t stray from it as it was me and her dad who would have to deal with a cranky overtired toddler.

you should’ve spoken to the parents before taking him downstairs to cuddle, I would be pissed at you too, he’s not your child. Also just cus his hands were cold doesn’t mean he was, you can’t tell a babies temperature from their hands. But you know that as you had 4

@letthemalldoone

There is absolutely a case for only allowing a child to be with their parents in the night. Not because the grandma is a danger but because it sets the standard for the child. If everyone's on the same page, then the child will understand if something inappropriate happens.

Also if someone clearly doesn't respect you, and makes it known, it's quite obvious why they wouldn't want them unsupervised with your offspring, it's almost a biological instinct!

Interesting thread. So many posters focused on what the OP did right or wrong, and whether the parents wishes should have been respected. Very few posts showing any interest in whether the child was OK.

Erm, what "danger" did his granny pose to the child? That's really beyond the pale! Plenty of 3 year olds sleep over regularly at granny's!! Do you want to ban all of them too?

@unicornpower if I recall correctly, it wasn't just his hands that were cold!

The thing is… shit like this “perhaps they could sleep in the pushchair” is the kind of crap you get ALL THE BLOODY TIME from “helpful” parents who aren’t sticking with a routine… it absolutely did not work for my DC after about 4 months and yes, we took DC everywhere and had plenty of pram naps but as a 3yo, no fucking way would a pushchair nap have happened. She’s probably been told that already (and also has half a brain so OBVIOUSLY knows it’s an option) but it either won’t work for her DC or she doesn’t want to deal with potential consequences, exhausted DC, nightmare to get home etc. So you “subtly” sticking your oar in is just NOT helpful. Over time, these helpful comments just wear really thin and then you just don’t want to hear it from MIL anymore. Basically, try getting back in your box for a while and a sincere “that sounds really difficult” to complaints is enough. She’s not necessarily looking for you to solve her problems, just be an ear to listen.

Has anyone ever considered this scenario. An example is when a dil produces a son who is practically identical in looks & mannerisms to to his father as a baby & the dil is having difficulty understanding him. Is it wrong for the mil to say this is exactly how ...... used to react. How about trying this or this, it worked for his dad. Sometimes the Grandparent can give good advice simply because they've already raised a child so like their Grandson. The advice may or may not work but it certainly shouldn't be seen as over stepping boundaries or being interfering. The suggestions should be accepted with respect for a parent who has raised a very similar child.

@letthemalldoone
What?

I clearly said that the granny isn't a threat.

No I don't want to ban all grandmothers. I would ban all condescending, interfering grannies tho!

If someone said that to me I would think they were bloody patronising!

"A Dil produces"

Dear me, she's not a machine!

No two babies are exactly the same, no matter how similar they may look to one of their parents.

Grandparents may have excellent advice and experience to offer, but it's important to balance that with understanding of the impact of frequent unsolicited advice on a new parent who may be struggling, tired, etc. It's always helpful to ask whether advice is wanted/needed before offering it. It's very frustrating when you are having a tough time and someone breezes in and says "why don't you just do x, that's what I used to do".

Ok, apologies, I misread that!

I feel for you OP. I have no grandchildren yet and I have sons so am always mindful of these kinds of problems.

I had my children in the 90s and I was a mixture of you and your DIL. Rigid about meal times and nap routines but relaxed about co-sleeping and a happy breast feeder. Overall I coped very badly with my first baby for all kinds of reasons and looking back I was probably a challenge for my long suffering mother and MIL.
Having said that I was always incredibly grateful for grand parental help and was perfectly happy for all rules to go out of the window when grandma was in charge. It's kind of what grandparenting is all about.

I suspect the distance, combined with the fact that you are the mother's MIL rather than her mum means you will never have quite the relationship you would wish for. DIL has her mum round the corner so has nothing to lose by falling out with you.

I think you have reflected more than most on the whole incident and apologised as much as you can.

Except in this case we know the OPs marriage broke down, at 12 her DS went to live with his DF and as an adult has a distanced relationship from his mother.

I was talking about inherited traits. To say they don't exist is wrong & in many cases this means the Grandparent knows the child well. There's nothing unusual about it. If as you mention a parent is exhausted & struggling I see nothing wrong in offering helpful advice. If a mother can accept advice from for example a midwife what is wrong with accepting it from someone in the family who can relate to the babies traits & knows what worked for them. It may or may not work but why hold it back. Having said this its from someone who welcomed all thoughts from Grandparents. I never once took it as interfering. I enjoyed hearing how they did things. I made my own mind up as to whether to try their suggestions & they respected that.

But that’s not what this is, is it, this is the op wants to do it her way and ignores the parents requests.

So how have you left things with son and DIL?

She's making a rod for her own back with her rigidity, but she's going to have to learn that the hard way on her own.

Personally, I think you've been treated unfairly here, can't do right for wrong to to speak, and while it's good your son has her back, I also think he needs to quietly point out to her that you were desperately trying to do what she would want. And that includes not taking him in with you as you knew that she wouldn't like that, and you were just trying to warm him up before returning him to bed.

I think it's actually quite stressful as a mother having another women take your child and cuddle them in the middle of the night. It would really rile me up tbh, and I think that's an instinctive mother reaction.

Also, when grandparents do things like this it's always annoying because it will impact lots of nights of subsequent sleep and who will have to deal with it? The parents - the grandparents will just enjoy their evening cuddle then toddle off and leave the parents to sort out nights and nights of broken sleep because the child's routine has been disrupted.

It's a bit like when my mum gives my DC loads of chocolate because they love it, then I get them home and have to deal with them being all hyper on sugar, running round and bursting into tears.

Ultimately the parents will know best what settles and disrupts a child - if you willingly go against that you just cause the parents hassle imo @TiredRetired

I understand you meant well, but you need to see it from their view and understand what disrupting a little ones routine could mean for the parents. Not all kids need routines (I don't have one with mine) but some kids really do, and go wild without one (my older brother used to be like this). Parents will know best what they and their kids need

Bless you. You don't sound malicious unlike my mil. Unless you called your dil an evil witch it will blow over.

I'd give them a bit more space and just back off for a short while. Not too long but say if you visit every month, I'd skip a month but not longer.

In future you need to wake dil up if the child wakes up or your son, who ever normally gets up. You was trying to help but they dont want that flavour or help. It's hard being a bit pulled back or guarded but that's what she is asking you. Don't think on your feet re the lunch, don't put their sleep before the rules.

My eldest son hasn't got kids but once they turn 18 there's a certain degree of watching him cock up, appreciating he doesn't want my advice. You don't have agree with them or like it. Just keep that to yourself. This there time to do their parenting in their way. If you don't see them often but that's still not a reason to be home for dinner then you just don't take the gc out for long. That can't possibly last forever.

It would be very sad for the GC to loose you over essentially not much. One missed meal, not waking the parents. It might a bit batshit but is worth ruining that relationship for? Just think to yourself and vent to your friends.

OP is the rigid one refusing to do what her DIL wants and sniping at her about how she is doing it wrong. She is absolutely NOT desperately trying to do what DIL wants - in the OP she makes this clear by stating ”Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different”

I probably lean towards the more rigid side of things in terms of routines and nap/meal times, especially with my first when I was a major control freak about everything. However even I wouldn’t have cared about the child being back a bit late or you trying to warm him up at night. He obviously felt secure and safe enough to come to you in the middle for the night which is lovely. I’d have been grateful that you were looking after him. She’s being ridiculous and massively unreasonable. If she’s cutting contact for that then she needs to get a grip and your son needs to grow a backbone.

As an aside your grandson is 3 and still sleeping in a sleeping bag and cot?! Surely he should be in a toddler bed with duvet by now, no wonder he was cold.