I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Lol! You didn't see that after the babies were 9 months old yet you know what GCSE choices they made? Methinks you're making this up!

So a Grandparent caring for a Grandchild while mum works ( very common) should carry about her rule book & check in on it before every move. I don't think so 🙄 Consistency doesnt mean sticking to rigid rules or a rigid regime.Flexibility within reason is by far a healthier approach.

Just waiting for the next thread by TiredRetired

”woke my DIL and son up to look after their kid who was cold in the night and now I’m banished from the house”

🤣👏

@SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun

Feeding DD1 food she was allergic too after DH had said no and why - because they didn't believe in allergies - luckily DD1 was just immediately sick.

OK no what?! That's crazy & irresponsible so yes, with context I cannot blame you at all!!

I agree with you in a way because my parenting style is similar to yours. So I think yes you are right but at the end of the day its their kid. And when you stayed over you knew they wanted him in the bed. I understand why that's difficult- I'd struggle with it too so I would find a hotel to avoid conflict.

Likewise with the mealtimes, it seems a bit pedantic but it's up to them. I'd take them out somewhere very close by or say actually let's all go out together or ask if you can take lunch.

Just what I was thinking!

Are these complex rules?

She can speak to her mil however she wants and if mil doesn't like it she can not visit again. It's no different to any other relationship - if it doesn't bring some benefit to both parties, it will probably end.

The power is all in the hands of the "jumped up" dil. If OP wants to see the grandchildren she needs to start treating her with a bit more respect and remember she's a guest in their home.

How good an mil is is in the eyes of the dil. You can't unilaterally declare yourself to be a good mil.

In your opinion. Which is irrelevant. It's the parents opinion that matters.
Anyway the grandparent wasn't caring for the grandchild. She was a guest in their home. An occasional visitor, not a closely involved grandparent who regularly looks after the child.

It’s so hard. I’m a grandma. The only advice I’d give is to make absolutely no comments whatsoever on their parenting. You obviously do, otherwise she wouldn’t have made the comment about the room being cold and you made the suggestion of sleeping in the buggy. Seemingly innocuous, of course, but it’s incredibly easy to offend a new mum who isn’t getting much sleep!

Whether it is your intention or not, this lady feels judged and found wanting.

Something we all have to remember is that we are not these babies’ parents. We love them as if we are, but we’re not. I know it’s hard when you live away, but like it or not, you’re not a significant part of these children’s lives and comments like you want to be yourself will wind the parents up. It’s not about you.

Keep stum unless you’re singing Miss Rachel songs, smile and I’m sure everything will work out in the end.

I can't believe people are saying a grandparent shouldn't have a snuggle with a grandchild without asking permission.

That's fucking crazy and controlling. Like, actually batshit.

Having kids means new scenarios pop up all the time. Maybe you have a routine, but a kid is sick, or wakes up in the night in a new place, or gets cold, or a train is missed and it's lunchtime, or or or.

So as a parent (or grandparent) you adapt to the circumstances and get back on track. That might mean warming up on the couch (because God forbid you take the GC into bed if the parents don't like co-sleeping) before you put him back to bed.

That is well within normal decision making parameters, it's not deliberately fucking up the parents routine. And no, it's not going to blast the child's whole routine to shit. Possibly he might be a little more tired the next day, but that is because he woke up, not because his grandmother took action to warm him up before going back to bed.

People do need to learn to live with the fact that in any given situation, a caregiver might take a slightly different approach to a solution. This happens between parents all the time, and it's fine - it's good for kids to have these normal variations in their experience with differernt people. Differernt solutions are not usually worse or better, or not that much.

And in any case - you cannot ever expect that others will even know what you would do in every situation so they can do precisely the same thing. Even if they try, sometimes they won't guess right. It's an unreasonable expectation to have of others.

It would be hellish to have to interact with a GC on that basis constantly, constantly thinking if what you say or do in a mundane situation (like a wakeful child) is what the mum would do.

Other adults who are close to a child are such a blessing to children. Unless they are unsafe people, parents gain so much for their kids by allowing them to become close to grandparents. That's in part because they are different people, children gain by having people who love and care for them, but are not exactly like their parents. Grandparents are often the first people in their lives who play this role.

@ThatIsNotMyNameSoWhyAreYouCallingMeThat
Not so here

I followed a routine just as you say ( although my mum had free reign when she helped, not often as she had cancer for a long time )

My three kids are doing wildly different things at and post Uni.
Each one of them is different in character and they have chosen things that completely aligns with their interests and characters.
We didn’t control or push or make decisions for them
For example When they decided to learn an instrument they listened to an orchestra online and decided what they wanted to play ( the harp choice was the only one we turned down as we couldn’t afford a harp ).

Fast forward to others I know who were more freewheeling and sent their kids to our local Maths Grammar school. They all seem to be doing business and economics. They chose a school where kids are pushed in one direction focused on the salary…..that’s what their parents wanted. A high salary for their kids with little thought about their own interests and personalities.

Routine gives a kid confidence that you’ll be there for them. You arrive at their bedside / cot before they start to cry looking for you. Because through knowledge you know when they will wake up. My kids never cried when they woke up because they had got used to the fact that we were always there. Eventually when we weren’t there straight away they knew, through experience, that we would be so never got upset.

That said.
We were not rigid with my mother as OPs dil and son are.

My kids learnt to go with the flow if things had to change and that’s good too.

I do childcare once a week and absolutely do follow my daughter’s wishes around things like biscuits, screen time and naps. Why wouldn’t I? She’s the child’s mother.

In a broader way, I don't think it's enough to say "your house your rules." It's a good start but it sounds almost like grudging acceptance.

I'm a Continuum Concept-y parent too but my daughter isn't.

I realised that I'd neglected to look her in the eye and say "you're a wonderful mum who makes good choices for her baby and herself. You'll need to give me very specific instructions for how you do things as my habits are different, but when I get it wrong it's not a criticism, it's just a mistake. When I ask questions, I'm not challenging you, I'm interested in your thoughts."

After we'd spoken, everything just felt lighter, and she was infinitely more relaxed. Something benign like watching her make up a bottle wasn't seen as scrutiny any more, she realised I was only curious.

It sounds like there's some heavy weight in your family's history OP, it might be time for a little soul-searching and an honest conversation.

I agree with this. My view has always been that grandparents are for fun, freedom & adventure. If they want to give my kids inappropriate breakfasts when they are there, that's fine by me. They want to watch (appropriate!) films with bowls of sweets & crisps? Go for it.

Grandparents (assuming they are trustworthy & loving) should offer safety & a judgement free zone. They aren't the parents and shouldn't have to act like them. As a parent I might jokingly roll my eyes at my when they were little at what nonsense had gone on at nan & grandads but it was ALWAYS from the pov of 'all these fun things you get away with there, you had a lovely time' to draw the line between home & grandparents. We made a joke of it & I regularly rib my mum about how my 15yo thinks she does everything better than me.

Now my kids are 15, 17 & 23 & all have a amazing relationship with my mum & dad (DH parents live a long way away unfortunately) & trust them implicitly & I value that so much.

Want to add...my relationship with my mum was so bad that I moved out of home at 16 with no warning & she didn't even find out where I was - my dad had to do it in secret. Now we are super close & she's just the best nan you could hope for.

Certainly the DIL seems to have the power.

That doesn't mean she's right though. She's shortchanging her child for one thing.

It's interesting that people on the thread keep saying that if their are shitty mums there must be shitty gms. Because the situation can sometimes be - the DIL is a shitty mum, and the GM is trying to navigate that.

My parents had no idea about any of it! Maybe they are just thick then? They once put my 4yr old in the front seat with no car seat and drove her home from school like that. Then rolled their eyes when I went mental.

The routine stuff is just about respecting parents wishes and parenting style, not about prior knowledge.

Just posted exactly about that. My mum wasn't good to me but she's the most wonderful nan

We saw them at birthday parties till they were about 5 and they went to a different primary school. They’re all now in the same secondary school and one of the mums and me are governors, so see each other every half term. The kids aren’t friends but we mums chat. The mum I see now is still friends with the other mum and we’ve shared stories about their GCSE choices.

We live in a very small place so the paths would always have crossed again!

But op wasn't the caregiver in the night. Also people don't 'need to' do things because we would prefer them too or think they're wrong. I do think DIL is wrong on parenting but so what it's her kids.

Quite clearly there is something missing in an adult who doesn’t see the danger in driving with an unrestrained child in the car. That isn’t the level of issue being discussed in this thread.

No, she can’t speak to her MiL however she wants - unless she wants a lifetime of hostility from said MiL. Respect goes both ways. And if a time comes when the OP is needed for emergency or short notice childcare, I guarantee you the attitude will be totally different. And OP’s son should have had her back.

We have looked after 2 sets of grandchildren for a long time. Of course we follow their parents (our children and spouses) choices. We knew what their choices were because we had already spent time with our grandchildren and our children together. Yes we were given timetable schedules, but surely it is easier for everyone concerned if the child sticks to the same timetable all the time. My children usually respond quickly to questions but even after 8 years I still have a few questions. They change as the children get older.
I don’t consider this to be limiting in anyway whatsoever. Surely it is much better for the child if their routine is the same regardless of who is looking after them. What they are allowed to do should be the same.

The OP was not the caregiver in this scenario. That's the important difference. When my child is at nursery the staff look after him. I trust them to do that and I know it won't be exactly what I would do. If I see a staff member out and about outside nursery hours and they overrule me when I am right there, that wouldn't be acceptable. It doesn't sound as though the OP is ever the main caregiver here.