I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

It is if they then go and climb from a bath side to a sink while holding on to a window bottom that's got bottles and bathroom tat on it - you thought, out of reach. The announcement of which is that there's a big toiletries avalanche and a thump as DC falls off. Fortunately it was not 2am but was night time and some hours after being put down.

As people were still up, but under the assumption a toddler was in their cot and not going to be beetling about, the outside door was not locked, so there was a tiny possibility that could have been something appealing to curiosity at 10pm or so too. It's really unlikely but it is an example of having to think on an adult plane and then second-thought it as a risk vs. what that child's habits currently are, which is pretty tiring. Then add the needs of a DC2 who is 7 months old, so no wonder the fuse is short.

The child is three. He likely won’t have known she was the one in there, she visits infrequently even the op says he was likely looking for a parent,

the op is very clear in her op what she said to her dil, which is “I did it different, you’re the main influence, can I not keep doing it my way when I see them,”

the dil response and the examples given show this is an ongoing issue where the op ignores her wishes and does it her way. And the last argument was the straw that broke the camels back. Where she still refused and asked if she could just do it her way.

so she’s out. All she had to do was respect their parenting wishes. It isn’t that hard. And she has clearly continually refused and you can see she is disdainful of their choices. Thinking them petty, damaging and rigid.

and this is the outcome. She went so far she broke it. This example with the the child was like ice excuse is just one she’s giving. It is clearly an ongoing story and the other examples the op gives clearly shows she thinks she’s right and the dilis wrong.

she cannot accept the parenting choices are not hers to make. With a grandchild they are hers to follow.

There is some absolute batshittery on this thread & there's going to be an awful lot of kids who cannot cope with any kind of changes & have zero flexibility.

I heard if I didn't hand DD1 as baby over to be past round screaming her head off in clear distress - she'd never learn to cope with people. We ignored that and at 19 she is at uni and generally described as quietly confident. Ironically DS who could be handed to everyone as baby was shy in childhood but gain communication skills more in late teens.

Just because they need a routine at 3 doesn't mean they grow to be inflexible adults.

I have no idea why the DIL and DS were really upset with OP - or what the GC is actually like - no one on here does. However if she can't get on with DIL and DS and clashes with how they parent she'll very likely end up seeing less of her DGC overall - changing her behavior and being an easier guest will help her in long term being "right" or her version of it won't.

She's not a stranger - had you rtft you'd know she has plenty of interaction with the gc from a distance. The grandson clearly felt comfortable with her else he'd have gone off to/asked for his parents when he discovered granny was in the room he was expecting dad to be in (again - rtft)

And no - I'm afraid I firmly believe rigidity to this degree (not able to do things because of set meal/nap/bath/bed times) isn't good for children at all. Fwiw - I didn't regularly co-sleep with any of mine cos I was terrified of suffocating them so I didn't sleep. All 3 kids were wildly different & needed different things from us as parents.

In fact, one only stopped several years of nightly waking when our cat decided to start sleeping on his pillow & comforting him when he woke 🤷🏼‍♀️

Presumably I should have prevented the cat from ever seeing him again.

They left a 3 yo on a different floor in a freezing cold room, and were angry you gave him a cuddle to warm him up? That's bordering on neglect.

Strawman argument I'm afraid - I, nor anyone else here, suggested passing round screaming & distressed kids. This is about regimented routines that can't be broken.

Who does? I bloody LOVED it!! Speak for yourself! So you are complaining about feeling judged by judging a lady who is a breastfeeding coach. Right.

Her parenting style is NOT irrelevant either. How dismissive. Great, another one that thinks they know it all and an experienced mother knows nothing!! Babies are still babies, whatever fads and fashions go in and out re parenting style.

It makes me angry as a parent of young adults that my experience is constantly dissed on here just because I'm older. The ageism is utterly disgusting. You're not reinventing the wheel, and older mums are not stupid!!

I would agree with this comment. Whilst it doesn't seem the end of the world on it's own, I suspect it's not the only issue your DIL has to navigate with you given how you've worded your post as if you're doing her a favour and she isn't entitled to her own parenting journey. I would have accepted I was wrong even if a genuine oversight and just apologised and left it as that.

I'd have loved waking up to find my mum cuddling my DD on the sofa because she woke up in the night and was cold.

I am nothing like your DIL so the only advice I can give is, suck it up, play nice and just do what she wants.

They should have been bloody grateful that granny tried to settle the child without disturbing their sleep! And what would have happened if granny had not been there and a 3 year old was wandering around unnoticed! In a new home that he's presumably not familiar with yet? Why didn't his bloody parents get up with him?

@TiredRetired are you still at their house? If so I'd be making plans to go home.

Just a reminder that the GC could well be thinking that this is all his fault. If he's not explicitly been told that this is nothing to do with him, and he is perfectly ok to ask for hugs or more warmth at night without fearing his mother's (or your) reaction.
The last thing the situation needs is a 3yo child too afraid to leave his bed in case it results in affection from beloved adults being removed.

"But this isn't a grandmother who's involved in his life that he sees regularly. She's an occasional visitor who rarely sees him."

She's involved enough that her grandchild felt comfortable being snuggled on the sofa! OP is involved - she Facetimes and visits. She just doesn't live close by.

You come across as quite manipulative @TiredRetired Phrasing your account as if you’re poor granny; merely trying to help even though you don’t understand her parenting… whilst putting her down and making it clear how some family members apparently agree with your parenting more.

In summary, I think you’re a constant cause of stress and tension for them. Ultimately it sounds like your son wasn’t impressed with your parenting choices as his mother, as it doesn’t sound like you two are particularly close. He didn’t want to live with you as a child so your parenting style can’t have been that great for him. He had children with a woman who isn’t like you and jointly, they have a different parenting approach. You aren’t being respectful of his choices by imposing your own viewpoint, no matter how gently you think you are raising it. You probably think you could raise your criticism in a more direct manner, but are failing to see that that it’s having the same effect on them and your strained relationship.

I think deep down, you feel put out because they don’t agree with your parenting choices - you feel it’s a criticism of you. But realistically you need to take yourself out of the equation here, you are not the parent. The way you are going on will lead to them distancing themselves further from you. They clearly have a more relaxed and different dynamic with the other set of grandparents and see them more frequently; they choose not to see you as often.

Can I just tell you, things haven't changed that radically since I had my first coming 30 years ago! Co-sleeping was disapproved of then too, but I ignored that and practised safe co-sleeping - no pillows, duvet only up to my waist, child wrapped in cellular blankets. Back to sleep was a big thing then too. I breastfed and particularly as they got older I fell asleep doing it. Car seat safety was also a priority and I didn't use bottles but people did sterilise them!!!

The only significant change I can think of is that the advice used to be to wean at 4 months. I don't think I'd have got any of mine to 6 months, even though I was still breastfeeding up to a year/nearly 2.

Grandparents aren't thick either - they can catch up on best practice!!

But the same applies if the child is in a bed? Presumably he's been climbing out of his cot for a year or more, it won't be a new thing!

🙌

Oh I see, you were there and know that his hands and feet weren't cold. Wow!

I would also like to add that you seem to think everyone has the same wonderful parenting experience which doesn't happen. Especially going from 1 to 2 children and the first year of having a new baby. Not everyone will enjoy breastfeeding and they don't have to and not everyone wants to make a group of mum friends or has to do this! I can understand her reluctance to change routine because it will likely impact her day esp if her dh works long hours. I know if I go out all day it means I'll miss my own downtime to rest when the little ones nap or the older one has some quiet time whilst the baby naps and I can sit down for a bit too. Her NCT friends perhaps are on a different journey to her as in they only have one older child or have just had their first and no older child, an older sibling might be at nursery/school. It's so much more complex than you are realising so perhaps you should listen more to your DIL.

Maybe stick to what actually happened instead of making shit up.

I can see both sides of this. I am in the middle of your parenting styles. Breastfed a long time. Co-slept when babies out of necessity but would rather not have. Had no routine with first but don't think that worked well really, second was easier with a loose routine and it improved sleep, same with meals, realised a routine helps no rigid times just try for an early lunch most days as it suits when they get hungry and means naps can start earlier.

I think you need to follow their rules to keep the peace but they need to chill out if you are 30 minutes late for a meal or nap.

When my kids wake they are never taken downstairs as that would signify wake-up time so I can understand annoyance but it is a shame it blew up like that.

I would apologise and move on being more careful to follow their rules even when they differ from how you successfully raised your kids. I think this will be easier once they are no longer toddler with nap times etc.

I mean I co slept with my second but I was soooooo terrified to do so with my first so I kind of get where she’s coming from. But did you actually fall asleep with him?

I mean I think at his age it’s not a big deal? I also don’t think what you said is a big deal? I mean my kids know if I say no can’t afford it then nana will always get it for them 😂. My mum says to me well that’s what I’m there for!

they only have to ask for a book (which to be fair is pretty much all they ask her for anyway) and she’ll buy it without hesitation because she thinks kids should have books all the time.

my mother in law though I trust her with my kids lives 100900%. We’re not quite the same but I adore my mother in law. She respects my choices. But she also does somethings I don’t always agree with but I can see why and I respect her for those choices.

I can’t imagine how utterly devastated you are

I breastfed till natural weaning and do not regret it. I liked breastfeeding, it's an enormous pleasure. I also did a great deal with my children, reading, painting, cooking etc. before and after they began formal school (these days I might home-school could I afford it). However, I never co-slept - my aunt's second child died whilst she was asleep, lying in her arms on a couch, so a no-no with me - and I kept to pretty strict mealtimes, though if we were out at lunch-time we had lunch out. I also - after a bad start mainly because my ex-H would not help - followed a routine of putting DC back to bed if they got up in the night (because no co-sleeping!) no cuddles, drinks, stories at all.
Children like routine and they like certainty. I would not be annoyed had my MiL done as you did (she did lots of things that annoyed me because she came from a completely different culture, and I said nothing much about it, certainly not to her) and I would not ban you from visiting. But you have shown that you despise your DiL's methods of bringing up children, ideas your DS agrees with. Your way of bringing up children is not better than your DiL's, nor is it worse. Say sorry. Keep to her rules with the DGC from now on. They should also loosen up a bit not so much about taking child downstairs in the middle of the night (bad for routine) but about being a bit late for lunch, naps etc - a little lee-way goes a long way.
Hope this all settles and you can be comfortable again.

It the same idea happens as a baby or 3 year old in fixed in stone and will predict how a child or baby will turn out.

Saying following a routine at 3 mean inflexible adult is absurd - children and routines change with age.

Easier guest IL were and more trust they built up with us more they saw of the kids. Unfortunately for around a year IL had a social group insisting IL were right could ignore us even if kids were put in danger - I think they just liked drama -upshot was even DH had enough and put visits off - (we'd also had two house moves in that period so had less coping capacity) . Their social circle shifted due to job changes to more actual grandparents and people with exs and blended families - and they then came again were much easier to get on with so it was easier to meet them in the middle - they still annoy me/us but we have got to a place we can tolerate each other and kids have a good relationship with them.

Op upset her DS and DIL and thinks she won't be allowed to see her DGC - if she carries on as she is that's likely true.

I think generally that it does sound like the rigidity of the schedule isn't great but if that's what their chosen then you need to respect that.
If you were closer then perhaps you could go down the, 'I want to be a grandparent not a parent and not have to worry about all these little details route' but I think that doesn't really work unless the parents are happy with it but maybe you can wait until the children are older.
I have seen what you've mentioned in that there was a neighbourhood mum I was close with for a while but her rigid nap routine meant that we just drifted because we couldn't find times that worked to see each other and it's just so much easier with mums who are more flexible. She'd only just moved to the UK so didn't have a support network either but I think she's found some friends now who have their kids on the same sleep training program so I assume she's okay. Your DIL will probably find her people eventually too.
I am actually very flexible like you, co sleep, breast fed, wanting an adaptable baby so I can have a life that isn't overly structured and it's been wonderful. Ironically my mum would love us to sleep train our daughter so that they could have her for overnights and one of the main reasons I don't let her babysit overnight is because I'm worried she'd try to do cry it out against our wishes to 'help us'. But on a day to day basis, I let them spoil her a bit, because they're her grandparents and they want to enjoy spending time with her and not have to actually parent her!
I think you need to back off a bit as often even well meaning advice can feel like criticism especially if she's stressed. Don't suggest anything and just go with their flow and hopefully the relationship will repair when they see you respecting their schedule.
I have a family friend who's DIL was this intense but they were doing childcare for them once a week at their house and were being watched on the monitor while they WFH and criticised for every tiny thing. They eventually said if you want us to do childcare then we're going to look after the child outside of the house each day because we don't want to be watched and criticised constantly. It's worked out so far and they love their grandchild but the relationship is strained with the parents and they are worried that they're only being allowed to continue this while the parents need childcare and then they'll be cut off afterwards.
It's often contentious basically.

I’m a grandparent. Frankly unless I see something that was definitely dangerous I do not offer advice or opinions unless asked.
When we have stayed overnight to babysit I asked them what their routine was and how they handle waking up in the night.
I always defer to the parents.Their child, their parenting norms and values.
It’s not difficult!