I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Everyone has opinions though and everyone makes judgements - that's just normal human behaviour. Relatives do tend to express theirs and can be irritating - there has to be enough 'give' in the relationship for families to thrive.

Real life doesn't suit inflexible routines - dil is going to find that not everything can be organised around her dc meal and sleep times. Maybe she could try to appreciate that OP is trying to help. If she didn't offer bf advice etc, she'd be called unsupportive. There's no way to do right when someone is determined to see everything you go through a negative lens.

I would have been furious if you were my mother in law. Who do you think you are? Why did you think it was your place to snuggle up with a child that wasn't yours on a couch when you were specifically told that they don't do co-sleeping.

I think you have massively overstepped, why didn't you just go and get his dad and tell him he's woken up and it think he might be a bit cold.

It's her grandchild not some random strangers baby!

Wow I can’t beleive you said the child was neglected . How ott.

People are allowed to see things slightly differently, you know. Adults can normally navigate this without the need for high drama.

I have a "friend" like your DIL, you will never win it's her way or no way, no in-between, no compromise. You are just seen as an interfering MIL.

How ridiculous of her.
Poor you.

God she sounds like hard work (and so does your son, that's my only criticism of your post, you can't pin this all on her.)
Other than that YANBU. The whole thing with the cafe is completely over the top and you taking a three year old downstairs for a cuddle wouldn't be an issue to me, it certainly wouldn't result in a ban.
Saying that they sound completely unreasonable as a couple so I think all you can do is apologise.

It’s never ridiculous for parents to choose how they want to raise their own children, and to have others respect that.

My brother and SIL are like your son and DIL. We respect their choices; so if my nephew got out of bed we know the routine would be to put him back into bed. If he was cold and we were worried about that we would wake the parents or give him extra covers. Is it what I do with my own daughter? No. And there have been plenty of times I thought their kids were missing out because of adherence to routine. But people are allowed to set rules around their own kids and if you are constantly not following the routine you are making their lives harder by teaching the children that they don’t have to comply. They will have reasons for doing things their own way. You need to apologise and do things her way. There’s not a need to walk on eggshells, just do the routine they do and follow the rules they follow - unless they are actually abusive to the children you would be massively unreasonable otherwise.

OP needs to realise she is NOT the child's mum. It wasn't her call to make and if the child needed comfort and warmed up it should have been the mum or dad that did that. Snuggling on the sofa in the middle of the night is so personal and OP took it upon herself to insert herself instead. What's next, she starts breastfeeding the child too?

I can totally see where your DIL is coming from.

The obvious thing to do was to put him back in his bed but with extra duvet/blankets on him. The parents are at fault in this--they should ensure that in a cold bedroom, he has enough bedding to be comfortable. The extra covers can be folded at the bottom of the bed so they can just be pulled up if needed.

You sound great OP @TiredRetired

I wish you were my mother in law

If you mean because he got out of bed and went to the room where OP was sleeping rather than his parents' room, that is because they are have just moved in and OP's son was sleeping in the room that OP was in. He moved downstairs to give OP the bed.

His parents obviously came upstairs to check on him and realised that he had gone.

@TiredRetired Your DIL does sound sensitive, but you have some strong opinions. I get that you are sharing them here to help explain your position and understand the dynamic, but I imagine that DIL feels your judgement - even if it is not what you intend.

For example, you posted: I suppose I think she sometimes doesn't do herself any favours as the rigidity of meal and nap times isolate her from other Mums and their support. Any effort I make to point this out though ( I try to be subtle) gets interpreted as criticism of as you say, over riding or invalidating her. By pointing something out, however gently you try to do it, you ARE criticising her choices.

In YOUR opinion she is hugely overtired and doubting herself and on the back of that opinion you thought it best to let ds and dil have an uninterupted nights sleep.

With regard to the conversation about the NCT Xmas event, by suggesting a solution you WERE implying that what she was choosing to do was wrong. Could you have made a supportive comment that validated the choices you know she is making? e.g. "that's a shame you can't stay all day, but it's important you stick to the routine that works for you". And if you have to offer something diffierent, perhaps suggest that things might change a bit as dc get older.

I mean all of this kindly OP, I too am a grandparent. My dc do things very differently to me. I bite my tongue often. Especially if I think they are struggling and doubting themselves. That is exactly when they don't need my alternative suggestions, but rather my 100% support of how they have chosen to approach things. It's hard.

She over reacted. Massively.

Does it bollocks

Think through what might be in the mix here (it's a guess, by the way, but based on memories of being a parent to that age, and now hosting a nephew coming up to the same age).

Both parents don't seem to be getting much sleep - this could now have been the case, on and off, for up to 3 years. Nobody is at their best in this situation so they might not be all that happy in conversations and don't mean to be short with you.

Hosting anyone while also being parents to small children is an extra stress for most people anyway. It's lovely, but it does throw many curveballs.

If a 3 year old takes it into their head to climb out of a cot after escaping from a sleeping bag, it's possibly dangerous, but it's extremely difficult to stop this. Extremely. When DNeph stayed overnight recently (with parents), they managed to do this from a travel cot (canvas sides, not bars) while also holding a soft toy, and go downstairs. Almost no vigilance is going to keep a lid on this. So don't open the channel to 'get out = go downstairs to find grown ups is an option' instead of back to bed. At the climbing phase, even as a parent, there will be points when you won't believe what will get into their heads in terms of a 'safe, fun climb' in what looks to be a normal environment. The best case scenario is that something ends up in chaos (like climbing from a bath edge to a sink - real example).

If DGC is a poor sleeper then naps will still be important for everyone's sanity; the parents will have found this out already.

They don't mean to be mean, but they're the ones who have to function whether you are there or not, by way of their parenting techniques vs toddler's stage.

Snuggling on the sofa in the middle of the night is so personal and OP took it upon herself to insert herself instead. What's next, she starts breastfeeding the child too?

This is where MN often gets ridiculous. Paranoia that a loving bond with grandparents is somehow taking something away from the parents. What happened to it taking a village? Getting unsolicited advice from our parent’s generation is an occupant hazard when we have kids. It’s easier to tell your own Mum to back off usually, so the MIL/DIL relationship can be a bit trickier to navigate. Most people just smile and nod and carry on unless there’s something serious that needs to be said. Most adults can say the thing in a constructive way and there’s no need for drama. My mother knew if she said something and got a non committal response to let it go. MIL didn’t know me as well and could be more persistent, so I’d have to be clear that no, I wouldn’t be doing that and even sometimes why. She still loved my children and was a positive factor in their lives.

there are some people who make raising children immensely painful and often think they are the first people to have ver had children. I personally was grateful for any help with my babies and honestly if they were with the grandparents then I left them to it! I think the child would have fond memories of granny cuddles so I’m sorry you are being treated like this.

You can be assertive without starting a row. Well I can anyway. I don't accept rudeness from anyone.

Some babies do need inflexible routines. My first child was so easy, would eat anything and sleep anywhere. My second child wasn't quite as flexible but ate and slept well. I thought I had motherhood sorted. My third child was so difficult I felt like new parent who knew absolutely nothing. Would only sleep in my arms, couldn't be put down for a nap. Cried all the time. I used to envy really old people I saw tottering past my house because they wouldn't have a crying baby at home. It made me anxious and inflexible because I couldn't just go on days out and know that he would feed and sleep OK. He definitely wouldn't.

No-one should judge anxious mums who are doing their best.

why are you assuming that the response OP’s son and her DIL would have preferred would not be in line with „best practices“? Or would be regressive?

OP has never described her son or DIL as abusive or neglectful. I will therefore assume that they are loving parents who can tell if their child is cold and or upset and will take the necessary and appropriate steps to deal with those issues.

Or are you suggesting that co-sleeping (whether that was on the sofa or the bed) was the only solution that you would not consider regressive? Or as aligned with best practices as co-sleeping?

It's not being paranoid. Normally I support a loving bond between grandparents and grandchildren but the OP's behaviour is wild.

She said earlier her DIL looked tense and tired. I would look bloody tense too of my breastfeeding obsessed MIL removed my child from their sleep space in the dead of night to have secret, midnight snuggles. Especially since it's a grandparent they don't see that often. Sorry but I think it was such a weird thing to do and the OP quite clearly doesn't like her DIL.

A lot of projection here. She didn’t remove him for secret snuggles he climbed out of his cot. I don’t agree with what she did next but I would not have been comfortable putting a cold child back into a cot he’d just climbed out of. In the circumstances I would have regretfully felt I needed to wake the parents but it’s not difficult to empathise with her trying to avoid that.