I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

OP were either of your grandchildren premature or sick at birth, or do they have any health needs/disabilities? My DS1 was extremely premature and we were told it would be very dangerous for him to co-sleep. We also had to feed him and wind him in very specific ways because he could suddenly stop breathing. I had a horribly difficult relationship with my lovely MIL for several years because I was terrified for his safety and she struggled to accept his disabilities. She insisted on doing everything her way rather than the way we were taught in NICU, and yes she did state more than once “I’ve brought up two children so I know what I’m doing!” I know she thought I was rigid, inflexible and even paranoid, but I had to be for his safety. Our relationship has repaired beautifully as DS1 has got older and become more robust, and I feel sad looking back that we clashed so often in his early years, but she couldn’t quite ‘get’ that caring for him was different to caring for any other non-disabled, non-premature baby. I wish you luck with sorting everything out. You sound truly kind.

OP, I was your DIL and now my children are a bit older there's definitely things I felt very strongly about when they were tiny, that I'd be much more relaxed about now - and I can see why they might feel you've overstepped.

What you've got to see is that these days as new parents, the advice is completely different and it's all we know. Co sleeping is basically damned by the NHS, the risk of SIDS is drilled in to you each time you see the midwife/ HV. make sure blankets are tucked under arms, feet to the bottom of the bed etc - as a new parent I stuck to all these rigidly because I didn't want to risk SIDS, the same with car seat safety, sterilising bottles, not giving honey etc. and you darent risk not following it.

Routines were also the things that save our sanity as parents and the tiniest deviation can mean the parents suffer, this was the way for us.

When my parents helped, if they delayed a meal or nap, I'd be so distraught because I really struggled when I was on mat leave alone with the baby all day and always planned for naps at home in the cot because I needed that time for myself to decompress. Napping in the pram meant a shorter nap and no downtime for me, which in turn made me much more snappy and then mum guilt.

We don't co sleep because I don't sleep well with them in the bed and if I'm not well rested I struggle to cope with them the next day. One night in our bed genuinely set a precedent and it'd be weeks before they'd sleep in their own bed again.

It will be all these little things, rather than you personally that's upset them. My parents didn't get this and rolled their eyes or got annoyed at me asking them to do things my way as if I was saying they didn't know how to parent. I'd get eye rolls and "well I've raised 3 children I do know what I'm doing". In reality they only know how to raise their own kids in their own times - modern society has changed.

I only ever asked to do things how we wanted because I wanted to protect our routine and our sanity and their safety, and when it got hard to keep telling them - we did actually stop asking them to have the kids for a while as it was just easier than dealing with the "telling off".

Looking back I appreciate everything my parents did and still do, but my life would have been so much easier and my anxiety much less if they'd been fully on board with how we needed them to be looked after as babies. I constantly felt like I was the bad guy for asking mum to do something we knew was normal - current advice or safety.

In this situation I can see why DIL and son were angry but it does genuinely sound like you just did what you thought was best. I would just explain this and ask what you should do next time, but also they need to understand that you won't always know what they'd do, you only have your own experiences to go from and your instinct took over in this case. You haven't had all the same advice etc as they will have and things have changed since you had babies and they need to give some leeway for that. It sounds like you love them and want to be involved and that is the main thing.

Honestly just talk to them and don't take it personally that they were upset about this x

You have probably made a rod for their back that might even be undoable which isn't acceptable.

Now their kid is going to be actively getting up every night looking for cuddles on the couch because you rewarded it instead of correcting it @housethatbuiltme

It's possible but op was sleeping in the bed /room that her son has been sleeping in so it's also possible the gs has already been waking and going in to his dad. If so, we don't know what the dad has been doing.

Was about 40 miles away but round M25 so impossible with 3 other kids and their school times. I was very uneasy about it but we tried to make it work.. I saw him almost every weekend as we would take others down to watch matches then go to Pizza Express.
He came home when he was 16

I think in the nicest possible way you probably don’t realise you are saying things with a certain tone. And your saying about doing things in their house by their rules implies you won’t follow them if out. My mother does this a lot “you’re not going to use a dummy are you”, “you’re not going to be one of those people that does XXX” and it’s just her tone really makes it sound negative when I’m sure in her head it’s supportive and positive. She would also be like you and like nothing more than have her grandchildren jump in bed with her and tried to do things to make this happen like leaving her door open/telling them to wake her up and other little things

And you may have raised 4 children - but this child isn't yours

My mum raised 3 but I don't agree with her parenting style

She wouldn't be 'lectured' if she had listened and respected the 3 years worth of prior telling how it works and seeing it in action. She fully acknowledges she understands she just doesn't 'agree'.

If you deliberately ignore what you know full well you are suppose to do then play the 'faux dumb' card you'll have it spelled out to you like you are a moron because you chose to play a passive aggressive moron.

Your DIL sounds brittle but you'll have to manage it gently because she's the mum. Just agree with her and keep the peace. Be there if/when things go a bit wrong for them. Be the more flexible granny when you can, but not when she doesn't want it. Don't be resentful - it sounds like you are very actively involved and that's already a lot for a granny, so be grateful for it. Don't rise to the bait if she's trying to bring things to a head. Smile and wave basically.

Op, think of it this way, what do your ds and dil get out of your visits? Do you lighten the load for them? Do you brighten the atmosphere? Do you make their day easier or more jolly in any way when you are there? Is your conversation uplifting?

Have a little think about it. You might begin ti understand why your DIL doesn't want to invite you to visit again any time soon.

When my MIL visits, she genuinely lightens our load. She looks after dc1 in a helpful, predictable way. If the plan is they'll come home for lunch at 12pm, they do that. If she disagrees with a plan, I never hear about it. She texts me before buying big presents just in case we already have it or it's not quite right for dc. If she makes lunch for dc, it's what dc usually eats. If she helps with bedtime, it's identical to the way we usually do bedtime. My heart lightens when she visits because I've got a genuine helpmeet and I know my weekend is about to get a lot easier.

I think you sound like an amazing grandparent and if I had you as a mother in law I would get over this quickly.

Shes sleep deprived and trying to stick rigidly to what she thinks works which is totally her show but your very response and open to sticking to this for her, I hope she comes around soon 🩷

No wonder your dil is inflexible. You've shown that you will blatantly disregard their children's routine. I imagine you do it with a tinkly laugh, "Oh you see, I'm different, me. I can't stick to these silly old rules." They want the child home for lunch but you find that somehow (how do these things happen to you?) you've parked the car and entered a cafe at lunchtime. You're told no co-sleeping but undeterred you bundle up with a child downstairs on the sofa - and you come out with such guff about his poor little hands and feet like ice. Were they fuck. You want your own way with the children; and the sooner you take on board that you are not going to get it, the better. Your dil has the patience of a saint. Oh, and if you didn't behave like a child perhaps she wouldn't speak to you as though you were one.

The subtext of your posts suggests that you have been trying to be the parent (and parent in a different way) rather than the grandparent, although you may not perceive this way. Be ware of cutting your nose off to spite your face and take a step back in order to preserve your relationships with your son, DIL and gc.

This sounds like a trading on egg shells situation and while based on your dil's previous behaviour, you should have known that cosleeping was a no-go zone, it sounds like they are so inflexible nobody could live up to their standards.

I would be massively grateful of my MIL came to visit dealt with my toddler getting up at night so I could sleep on.

You seem nice.

I think your SIL is extremely unreasonable to threaten cutting off contact over this. Going NC is the right choice if there is abuse/narcissism etc but your situation is very minor on the scale of things!

Family is so important. Why would SIL want to prevent her children from knowing their loving grandmother?? Children thrive when they have a wider network of caring adults around them.

People don't have to agree on everything all of the time. You apologised (and I'm assuming will not repeat the offence) so imo it should just be water under the bridge.

It sounds like you visited at the worst possible time and all the issues in your relationship bubbled over.

It does sound like you criticise and undermine your DIL perhaps without fully realising that you're doing it. She may be overly rigid, who knows? But she's your GCs mother and if you want a relationship with them you're going to have to try harder to get along with her. You live far away and you don't have a great relationship with your son, taking a stand against minor issues will not play well in your favour.

My DC had strict regular naps. It gave me a up to an hour of precious downtime to have coffee and do some chores. If those naps were disrupted then it would be a nightmare trying to get through the rest of the day to a disrupted bedtime. And possibly knock on into the next day. It was my little bit of sanity in the day. Well worth the restriction on other activities.

I think you should be really careful of one-upmanship OP- you've mentioned having 4 kids twice in your post. You might have had more children than your son and DIL but this doesn't automatically give you more authority. I do need to stick up for your son & DIL in terms of routine- I used to hate it when my ILs interfered with this with my kids- I'm sure they also thought I had a stick up my arse but when it knocked the sleeping routine out it was me who was getting it in the neck at 4am, not them. You mention they've also just moved house- speaking from recent experience, doing that with young children is exhausting. Couple that with anything that disrupts sleep (their son's probably at an age where he'll now expect THEM to go and sit with him on the couch every night), I'm not surprised they exploded. I hope you get it sorted though, like many other posters have said, I bet things will get easier as the kids get older. The trick probably is negotiating this stage with as few arguments as possible- your son and DIL sound stressed and exhausted.

OP do you remember wanting validation of your choices when you had your own children? I'd lay good money that at least some of your own older relatives thought you were making a rod for your own back by co sleeping back in the day. Would you have appreciated them telling you so when you were dog tired though? Or would you have wanted support for your choices?

If DIL feels judged by you for not co-sleeping, and it is very likely that she does, it's not really that surprising that she hit the roof when she discovered what must have looked to her like you deliberately undermining her.

And If their youngest is 7 months and she doesn't enjoy breastfeeding, it's OK to stop. If you really want to be a different granny, put her welfare first and tell her you'd support her choice.

How did your son or DIL not realise their child had gotten out of bed!
I would have been worried about that (even though that wouldn't happen in my house) and I would say sorry for getting your sleep interrupted!

If my child was cold and went for a cuddle with their Nanna I wouldn't think anything of it! It's nice! I love the relationship my daughter has with both sets of grandparents and I'm aware they parent differently to me. they have raised me and raised my husband and they are good people!

What has your son said?

This is so bang on!

Both my DS are autistic, DS2 also with ADHD. It was really hard to explain to family members why breaking the routines wasn't possible, why we had to plan ahead, not do spontaneous stuff, etc. DS1 was a pretty placid baby and I could take him anywhere, but as a toddler he started to show sensory processing issues and couldn't be anywhere chaotic or noisy for long. DS2 was always easily overwhelmed and dysregulated, slept poorly, we couldn't get him to sleep anywhere but home. Not a chance could I have taken them to an all day Christmas event, even when they were primary school age. People would say "oh they'll be fine, they'll enjoy it" and I'm there like oh ho ho ho, you have no idea what hell that's going to unleash!

A grandparent who lives a distance away and only visits sporadically is going to have no idea about the reality of day to day life and the needs of those particular DC.

Did your DIL hear something that woke her in the night, check on her child in his bedroom and find him missing? And then find you missing as well and have to search for you both at midnight? Perhaps she was unreasonably angry because she got a horrible scare to wake to find him gone?

OP I haven’t read the full thread but read most of your responses. I have an 11 month old and we have been in a rigid routine since she was probably 6 weeks old. Classes/groups only around naps etc. I have had and still have post natal anxiety and depression and the rigid routine is what has helped me cope with that as best I can, could it be possible something similar could be going on? If someone broke my routine I would have an initial spiral and not necessarily handle it well and be into a panic of what will happen as a consequence of the routine being broken. She could be suffering in the same way and hasn’t acknowledged it or if she has, you haven’t been told?

You sound like a reasonable person, just that you and your DIL have different ideas around childraising, and clearly you're quite different in your thinking and approaches to life. Neither of you are wrong, but there's the potential for a clash, and this has happened. I think all you can do is apologise sincerely, tell her you do respect how she's raising the kids and didn't mean to step out of line (which I think you've done) and hopefully it'll blow over. Unless there's much more of a backstory, it doesn't sound like crime of the century, so I think it'll probably be fine in the long run.

I imagine that DIL feels undermined by you. Your undertone seems very critical of her. Her parenting is her business. Your parenting style is irrelevant because YOU ARE NOT THE PARENT. Do shit their way because the children are their children and only their rules apply. I'm sure you made errors in life and parenting you need to let them make their own. Unless, the are abusing the children it's not your business.