I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Irrelevant. He's raised already. He and DIL have made their wishes clear. Let things die down, OP.

I identify as a mama bear type - I co sleep, extended breastfeeding, no rigid routines etc - but even I would be furious if one of dc's grandparents took my dc downstairs to the sofa in the night for fun snuggles. Warming his feet with your hands, wtf were you thinking?

If dc is cold, you go into their wardrobe and find some warm socks and a jumper/dressing gown for them. Then put them back to bed. Quiet and matter of fact. You do not make midnight waking fun, ever.

You sound like you constantly make little digs about your DIL's parenting. (Even that dig about dormer bedrooms being cold, which DIL justifiably bristled at.) But actually as so many pps have pointed out, you are not necessarily mum of the century either as you gave up this same son at 12yo, which is something that many mums would do anything to avoid. So live and let live. Don't judge lest ye be judged and all that.

OP lives 200 miles away and DIL has her parents very close by so she is probably sorted for childcare and babysitting.

I would love it (when/if) my mum took our toddler back to bed with her to co sleep.

but that’s because I’m a co sleeping breastfeeding no routine mama.

HOWEVER i do get really annoyed if I clearly explain how we do things in my family and my mum does the complete opposite because that’s what she likes to do. Eg give pudding for breakfast (cake) to a 2 year old. Or tell off a child having a tantrum. Or wipe my babies face with a dirty old dishcloth she found by the sink.
She know how we do things but clearly ignores and it does fuck me off and want to go low contact for a bit until she clearly understands I am the parent and my wishes trump hers

Doesnt sound like it was a massive go, more DIL explaining why she’s not happy which the OP appears to get bored of hearing part of the way through. OP doesn’t seem to want to follow the rules of the house as she knows best

When would the son apologise in his own house about his own child. Especially when he doesn’t think he or his wife are in the wrong

yawn. So you don’t even see the kids that often or contribute to childcare? Then I’d say best to keep your opinions to yourself. Raising kids in the 80s is irrelevant, tbh- I remember nothing about what I did 40 years ago, and regardless, parenting today is very different. PS, I can’t possibly imagine why your DIL didn’t want you involved with her boobs.

I tend to think people write as they speak - and you’ve included several ‘extra bits’ which change the sentences meaning when you write stuff - like when you mentioned you ‘think’ it’s a good idea her parents help her. To be fair to you when a previous poster pointed this out you acknowledged it’s because you feel a little jealous.
I am guessing you are making similar loaded comments to your d’n’law - in fact it’s likely you are making them to everyone. I think you are using it subconsciously as a way to make your feelings known.
You are likely not aware you are doing this but it is a way of manipulating people to do what you want as you are giving an idea of how you feel and they feel obliged.
I think you need to think carefully when you speak and take these sorts of things out of your language

Wait, so you were in the bed your son has been in?
What I mean is, who was your gs expecting to see when he went to "your" room?
Is there any chance the ds (your gs) has been getting into bed with your son/his dad?

And that's what Dil was actually annoyed about?

I read somewhere else that when you mentioned your gs was cold your Dil took that as a criticism that you were saying the house was too cold.
Honestly I don't think you could have done or said anything differently to have a better outcome.
You couldn't have sent the GS to his parents as that involves walking downstairs on his own.
If you had knocked on their door to say he was cold they still would have taken offence that the house was cold etc etc

Dil sounds stressed and low self esteem, perhaps she feels a little intimidated by you as you come across as confident and competent, two things she might not be feeling of herself.

I'd let it calm down for a bit and maybe try writing to her, profusely apologising and showing her you love her, respect her and want to 200% support her.

Agreed. As an isolated incident it probably wouldn't have caused an issue, you could probably put it down to a grandparent being a bit naive/not knowing the best thing to do when woken up in the night by a 3 year old, but I think it's probably a "last straw" situation here.

OP's comments are also fairly defensive, she's still trying to put across that she thinks her way is better than DIL's, and if this is what's coming across to DIL, it's just not going to go down well. The impression I'm getting is that OP thinks she's lovely, warm and child centred and DIL is strict, cold and rigid. Whereas DIL probably sees her as chaotic, permissive and interfering, and her own parenting style as safe, containing and predictable for her children.

OP isn't making much effort to understand things from the DIL's perspective here. She just thinks her parenting style is better and her experience is more valid than her DIL's views.

Son and I have had a few conversations about this. It wasn't ideal looking back on it but seemed the best course at the time. He won a scholarship and was really keen to take it up but his Dad weaponised it imo and son became critical of me when at home which was on top of usual teenage angst. I worry he seems quite closed off emotionally but that's all the men in my family and my ex so he didn't stand much chance.
His Dad now lives abroad and he hasn't seen him for a decade and son is critical of him when we've spoken of it but perhaps I haven't got the whole story.
I think he is conflicted about that time of his life but doesn't want to talk about it. Very focused on his business at the moment although he's a good Dad when home. Takes kids out every morning down to the beach for half an your so DIL can get showered etc. I think he is incredibly happy his homelife runs well, I don't want to rock that boat for them and I'm incredibly unhappy at this turn of events.

I'd never heard of the 'Continuum Concept', but looked it up. When I was bringing up mine I just did what came naturally, was baby-led and had no fixed routines. We coslept a lot of the time. It worked for us, was nice and relaxed but I would never have pushed my way of doing things onto another parent, they have to work things out for themselves.

You didn't do anything wrong when your little grandson got up and came in to you, you were instinctive, and it does seem a bit silly that your daughter-in-law insisted on her child being home for 'meal time' when you had just been in a cafe.

However I can't help feeling there is more to it than what you say. You sound quite overpowering though I realise you don't think you are.

I doubt you are banned from seeing your grandchildren but cool it for a while and go along with what they want, not with what you think is the way to do it.

There is no one way.

I think this poster is just surprised, not that you think sleep training is cruel, but that with a new baby of your own you are already worrying about how any future grandchildren will be brought up. You may not even have any grandchildren and sleeping advice might be very different when/if you children have kids of their own.

Dil sounds stressed and low self esteem, perhaps she feels a little intimidated by you as you come across as confident and competent, two things she might not be feeling of herself.

We have know idea how DIL feels - only OPs biased and disapproving version of her.

She has a seven month old baby which she is still breastfeeding - so still in the maternity leave window. "Doesn't work" seems like an odd term to use for a woman on maternity leave.

Wrangling a new house, trying to maintain routines for daily life and sleep for the older child and establish them for a baby. Have you forgotten how tiring that can be and how frustrating it is when people ignore the patterns you are trying to establish or offer "subtle" hints telling you that you are doing it wrong?

I think you're totally unreasonable and need to have a good think. I know you mean well but constant criticism and interference is really not what they need.

She's tired and stressed because she has 2 young children and an overbearing mother in law. She's probably fine when you're not around.
The strict routine is because that's what works best for her family. Children are all different and what worked for yours obviously is different to what works for hers. If she wants them to eat and sleep at certain times you need to stick to that, not imagine that you know best and undermine her. They are not your children. Things will doubtless get easier as they get older and she will relax her approach but if you're not careful the damage will have been done.

You obviously think your approach was best but that didn't end well with an acrimonious divorce and a poor relationship with your adult son.

I think you were well out of line bringing the child downstairs. You should have taken him straight to his parents and let them deal with the situation.

What should OP have done then?
Interested in your suggestions...

You all sound a bit 😳 to be honest

I have two x 3 year olds. Age 3 is far too old for a cot or a baby sleeping bag unless I'm getting the impression wrong here. An extra blanket age 3 is not a suffocation risk

She said MIL couldn't visit any more which is really disproportionate.

Perhaps DIL is overtired and stressed and had her buttons pushed. We all act irrationally in times like that. She should take on board her child might actually be cold though. And threatening to withhold her children from a loving grandparent is really mean.

It sounds like the son didn't say anything to his mother but was really off with her, which is childish. He also left speaking to her to his wife who sounds very stressed. So I think he should apologise to them both and grow a pair!

What I detect is a subtle judgement in your tone. The I raised 4 and know better. The passive aggressive it’s such a shame she’s not enjoying it. And I suspect this is what she’s picked up on. You think your way is right, not hers. And you’ve made sweeping judgements even though you don’t see them that often. It is not supportive, and very hard to be judged, these are her kids, she is doing it her way, everyone is tired with two this age, it doesn’t mean she is the problem as you’re alluding. Thay she’s too rigid hence why she’s tired, no friends etc.

if you can’t visit without being judgemental, and wanting to do it your way, you will not be visiting at all I’m afraid.

"of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm sorry. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them"

That was the right answer.^ not combative. Your answer says "im sorry but i still think im roght and youre wrong". Its like saying im sorry you feel that way instead of just sayingnim sorry.

I was quite strict compared to grandparents for 2 reasons. Firstly, in hindsight I had some sort of postnatal anxiety/ocd which I didn't recognise but in hindsight i managed by rules and routines to keep my baby "safe". It was more complicated than just me being strict and difficult.

Secondly, it took time to find my feet and accept that ds made me a mum but he made my parents into grandparents and that letting some stuff go was part of the grandparent/child joy.

Things got better after about 5 years because I have mostly grown out of the mental health issues and found ways to manage the residual problems and because our parents followed every rule, even the ones that were slightly bonkers in hindsight, we have absolute trust. I think their behaviour positively contributed helping me overcome my issues. They always tried to do the right thing and I think that's key here.

Tell them about GS being cold in the night with freezing hands. Then say you’re sorry again and leave it for a while to simmer down.

I don’t agree that OP was telling DiL she was wrong. She was rightly pointing out that it’s insulting for a younger woman to lecture a MiL as you would a child, when said MiL has raised four children herself. I absolutely agree that OP should respect that their parenting choices are different to her own, but if their rules are so rigid, how OP interprets those rules will inevitably cause confrontation unless they can bend a little. And I’d bet the farm that if OP has been banned from seeing her grandchild, that will only last until they are in need of some free childcare.

I think this post shows that you are probably misinterpreting DIL's life right now. I was also fairly rigid with my DC, so I think I probably have some insight. The truth is that previously relaxed people don't go into parenting thinking "I want to be really rigid and have my life controlled by DC's strict routine"! We end up becoming that way because we learn from experience that this is what our children need. I desperately wanted to be "go with the flow" and take DS here, there and everywhere, but he simply couldn't cope with it. Needed to be back home in his cot for naps, and if he didn't nap, the rest of the day was hell for me. So yes, for the first 3 years I sucked up the lesser of 2 evils and stuck to routine, which meant I couldn't do all the things I wanted to, but at least meant I got the maximum rest I could and DC was as happy as possible and enjoyed the things we could do.

I think you need to change your mindset from "she's chosen a miserable way to parent" to "she's been given tough kids who need a certain parenting style. Hats off to her for coping with it. It won't last forever but I'll happily support her in these early years".

I think your relationship will improve a lot if you take this advice. Good luck!

Put socks on the kid and put them back in bed.

You know the normal thing you do when a kid gets up in the middle of the night complaining of cold feet.

Why take him downstairs? Why not put him back to bed?