I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Get him warm then put him back to bed. To be hones, I had no idea initially whether it was 5 am or midnight.

She should apologise for having a massive go at her mother in law and threatening to ban her from the house! How she parents is obviously up to her but I can't see how that is a good example for her children.

And the son should apologise to both his mother and his wife for not having the brain to talk diplomatically to his mother first thing.

Yes you just subtly suggest stuff.... She's not a child either.

Absolutely agree

The parents were downstairs so what's the kid supposed to do? Were they going to leave him alone?

Granny took cold grandchild downstairs to help him warm up. I find your comment very strange.

They are right in the trenches at the moment and completely sleep deprived which makes normal behaviour in others less tolerable! Hopefully hindsight and a little distance (in time terms) will make them realise that life is more than just "survival".

Be gentle on yourself and them. Send flowers if you think it will help, let go of any hard feelings (you sound as though you don't actually hold any) and apologise (even if you don't feel you did wrong). When the kids are older things should get easier, wear a metaphorical bullet proof vest till then.

This. I don't think I've ever seen so much projection on one thread.

But those aren’t the two options. OP could have taken her grandson into his parents so they could do consistent nighttime parenting. She could have put him back into his sleeping bag so he wasn’t cold, and stayed with him til he slept. Or put him back in his sleeping bag, into the cot, then wake her son to let him know the kid is awake and scamping around.

At 3, my DC would 100% want a repeat of the fun time they got to go all the way downstairs in the middle of the night. OP says she wanted her son and DIL to have an uninterrupted night (which sounds like retrospective justification, given she always says she was befuddled and didn’t know what to do). But it’s far easier long term for parents to have an interrupted night doing their consistent thing, which then leads to sleep; vs now, the 3yo may well attempt to get downstairs himself, or throw 2am wobblers wanting to go downstairs. And her son was woken up anyway!

OP is very much coming across like the irritating MN cliches of “head tilt” and “tinkly little laugh” in her belief that her parenting choices are superior. So she’s raised 4 kids? Son and DIL are raising 2 kids. Most people who have kids raise them, it’s not an achievement. And there are no superior parenting choices. Most parents are doing what works for them and their kid, on whom they’re the expert. You could raise 100 children and still not know what to do with someone else’s or even your 101st: they’re humans, not pre-programmed robots.

This. My mother and Mil would have done the same thing and I would have been grateful that they were the eyes on the back of my head and used their instinct to settle a small child that was freezing. Your Dil and son sound like hard work finding any reason to exclude you, I feel sorry for your grandchildren for having parents that micro manage the grandparents who use basic human instincts to settle a child. It must feel like walking on egg shells. I'm sure you have created a safe and loving bond with your gc where he felt that he could come to you in the middle of night.

Totally agree with this. My daughter is 3 and if one of her grandparents had done this if she'd woken cold in the night, rather than wake me or her Dad, we'd be grateful that they'd let us sleep tbh! It's clear your heart was in the right place, OP.

As an aside, why isn't a 3 year old in a proper bed with a warm duvet? My daughter is 3.5 and has been in a proper little bed with a pillow and duvet since she was 2.5. Quite apart from anything else, 3 year olds are heavy - how are they lifting him up and over cot bars still?! 🤯

This very clearly is not just about what happened this one night.

The son is quite rightly supporting his wife, his life partner with whom he has children and is raising them. He might be the one who prefers this parenting style. Or maybe he works long hours and respects that this is the way his wife manages. Either way the last thing he should be doing taking his mother’s side over his wife’s (and the mother of his children).

You have probably made a rod for their back that might even be undoable which isn't acceptable.

Now their kid is going to be actively getting up every night looking for cuddles on the couch because you rewarded it instead of correcting it.

It doesn't matter if you where fine with lapsed structure parenting but its not you that will be up every bloody night dealing with a kid refusing bed.

Also breastfeeding is horrendous for many people, it might bond some people but for others its a massive drain on body and mind. Its entirely up to her if she does it but criticizing her for not enjoying it enough is a new low in competitive parenting.

You're both wrong.

If you want a three year old to sleep int her cot then rewarding their getting up by taking them downstairs for a cuddle is a bad idea. My mum did this to me once as well. Staying in a hotel for a big event, DS woke up at 5 and my mum went in and started reading him stories and chatting with the lights on. My face was just "what the fuck" it blew my mind that she would just take it upon herself to interfere with my child's routine on an important day for me. She thought I was being precious and that she was doing me a favour by saving me the trouble of getting up. I had no intention of getting up, our rule is ignore or if upset, a quick tuck back in and back to bed, children know this.

Anyway, I told my mum off and we moved on. I wouldn't have been impressed by her telling me I'm wrong, but also these things happen and I wouldn't ban her from staying.

I do make it clear she is not to go into the child's room for any reason though, she just needs this black and white rules or oversteps all over the place.

What you've said sounds quite reasonable if a bit forgetful about having young kids with the no need for lunch on time/taking them downstairs at night etc.
So I'd wonder if the issue is more the way you are saying things. I'd assume she's picking up on a judgmental undertone which does come through a bit in your post.

There's a big difference between "well it's your kids, you do it your way...." with a critical undertone and "we do things differently, that's fine" with genuine respect.

This is a thread where it would be fascinating to have the DIL perspective. It sounds as if she has had enough of feeling judged and criticised at every turn for her parenting style and reached the end of her tether. My MIL was the same, no overt criticisms, just a loud 'hmm' sound so I knew she disapproved.

It sounds to me like there is a long history of the DIL never feeling that anything she does is good enough for OP and she is done with pussyfooting around this.

It's impossible to know who is "right" and who is wrong, as from your telling she sounds pretty rigid and unnecessarily strict and unfair, although there's always the possibility she's got a whole list of times where you've overstepped, not listened, done the opposite of what you've been asked to do and tried to impose your way of doing things on her...

But whoever is right and whoever is wrong, the only way to solve it is if you give a complete and fulsome apology.

not sure why this person quoted on my post i went on here as i understood but also see things from grandmothers side as well. people put children in cot with no covers and if rooms are cold child is cold but older parents didnt do this

Well they would be onto plumbs for baby sitting for a start.

as from your telling she sounds pretty rigid and unnecessarily strict and unfair

But this is clearly the issue - OP thinks her DIL is rigid, unnecessarily strict and unfair and writes in a way that encourages us to agree with her point of view.

No wonder DIL has had enough.

The thing is she has lots of experience raising her children, in a routine that she chose, decades ago.

GC are being raised by their own parents in a routine they have chosen according to current best practice. I don’t think that’s unreasonable tbh. Their way is so different to her way she’s probably best to ask for clarity about what they would like her to do.

From DIL’s perspective having got a routine going that is working for DC , that MIL is aware of, to then be informed that MIL has decided to ignore the routine in favour of a cafe lunch I’d be annoyed too. MIL should have checked first.

When DGC woke up and was cold if MIL couldn’t fathom extra socks and blankets and putting DGC back to bed, I agree she could have woken parents rather than side stepping the no co sleeping rule by co sleeping downstairs on the sofa. This rule is obviously not about the location it’s about the co sleeping.

If MIL doesn’t understand the rules and routine the parents have in place I am sure the parents have lots of reading material that has formed the basis of their decisions for their children that they would share if MIL asked - and asking to be educated about their choices would be a positive step in improving their relationship.

It can’t be easy for DIL to be in a family that eye rolls at her parenting choices to the point MIL has to defend her. And where even MIL makes comments about her ‘breastfeeding but not really enjoying breastfeeding’. She probably feels she is being judged at every turn and can’t win, just for trying to do the right thing by her DC.

I dont think anyone is ill intentioned here but MIL could do a bit more research to understand the choices the parents are making and why they are important to them. I do think the breast feeding comment comes across as a bit snide even if unintentionally so.

IMHO YANBU

You sound like a wonderful Grandma! Snuggling in bed, listening to owls, supporting your DIL with breastfeeding. And you clearly have a lot of respect for your DS and DIL.

I’ve also brought my kids up like you (co-sleeping, breastfeeding, taking them wherever I go and letting them sleep in the pushchair when tired etc). I’m also vegetarian. A fear of mine is that my DS’s may have kids with women who are the other end of the spectrum. I’d have to respect them, of course, but I’d find it heart-breaking if, for example, I could hear a child crying itself to sleep etc.

I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong. You took him to the couch in order to respect their no co-sleeping rule. Your DIL does sound like she’s struggling and it’s making her quite uptight. It sounds like she doesn’t have a lot of support from your son if he works such long hours.

While it’s so important not to undermine parents’ way of doing things, which you clearly know, children should have their own special relationship with grandparents. While my relationship with my mother has never been easy, she’s been a wonderful grandmother to the kids (snuggling in bed together, watching favourite tv shows, playing games etc) and it’s enriched their lives so much.

Don’t give up on your relationship with your grandkids. Keep up the video calls and visit whenever you can, even if you do have to stay in an hotel. When they’re older (e.g. when they have their own phones and can stay with, or go away with, you without their parents), it should get much easier.

Trying to see it from their point of view… DS wakes up to find his son downstairs with you in the middle of the night. You’re saying you had to rescue him from his freezing bedroom, look how cold his hands are, can’t put him back to bed in this state . DS feels VERY criticised. Does Mum think he and DIL aren’t capable of looking after their own child??? And she complains about their home as well as their ability to parent…
I know you meant to be helpful but to get past this you may need to find out exactly why they are so angry and apologise for that and promise to behave differently in future.

All you can do is let go, step back, be available and wait for them to want your involvement again. I can see how hurt you feel xx