I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

You sound much nicer than me! I think DIL should also apologise to be honest. Her reaction was way ott and rude. And maybe her house is too cold!

Agree with this, I’ve seen this sooo often - every time you do something differently to another parent, it’s a criticism of what they do. Eg choosing schools - people round here get so defensive if you’ve chosen a different school than they have. Everyone just makes what they think is the right choice for their children.
DIL and your son here have made different choices to you OP - perhaps you’re subconsciously offended and that’s why this hurts so much more than it should?? Just go along with what they want for their child.

Well, but your DIL is married to your son, and presumably they agree on parenting styles! Why are you so focused on her? Isn’t your son involved in deciding how to bring up his kids?

Of course YABU, taking a child downstairs under a duvet a midnight when they should have been put back in bed. I would love to hear the DIL’s side to this!

This thread is insane.

OP didn't drive her grandchild somewhere without so much as a seatbelt on.

She didn't give him marbles to play with at 12 months old.

She didn't feed him something he was allergic to.

She didn't lose him in a shopping centre.

He came to her, cold, in the middle of the night.
Half awake herself, but mindful that taking him into her bed to warm up was against the rules, she took him downstairs to warm him up with a cuddle on the sofa.
Apparently this is a sin as bad as doing all of the other four things, and the majority of posters responding think that DIL is right to prevent OP having contact with her DGCs ever again.

Madness reigns.

Yes, why is the ds not speaking to his dm?
Probably because his dw has given him his instructions to keep out of the way whilst mil gets a dressing down.
I doubt ds has anymore say than his dm here.

And I speak as someone whose own db let his dc down by being controlled by his dw who frankly was a control freak.
Everyone in their house walked on exsil’s carefully laid out eggshells.

I think it’s a good idea to back off a little and let things cool down…things got heated as you both have such different parenting style and add on a house move and young children, it prob just got too much for your DIL.

however, you do need to recognise that you and your son will have different views of his childhood, you said you raised 4 children but at 12 he moved to live with his dad…your son won’t view you as raising him. I was in a similar situation and don’t view my mom as raising me- parenting doesn’t stop at 12, the teen years are more vital than baby years. so that comment prob made DIL angry as she’ll have your sons version of his childhood.

it sounds like your both so different, but you have to look after the grandchildren as the parents want you too…taking a child downstairs at midnight and sleeping on the sofa is madness, there’s no way you sat up all night holding his hand, the parents room was downstairs so a little knock on the door to get your son up wouldn’t have hurt. You get to grandparent as you want with your daughters children so be happy with that.

Why didn't you pop him back in bed. Your post comes across as critical of your dil. Step back and let time heal. Just be supportive rather than critical.

I think if I’d just moved house with a new baby and my toddler got out of bed to find his Dad who’s bed was full of a visitor I would expect that visitor to wake me up, not take my child downstairs. I think if my MIL who visits rarely from far away had come to stay and I’d let her take my toddler out for the morning I would expect them back for lunch rather than a text saying they’d be stopping out a bit longer. Honestly I think you sound like you overreach all the time without realising. Of course your dil doesn’t have a group of mums to hang out with in any sort of performative way, she’s had a baby having just moved house with a toddler and a husband who works long hours. Of course she needs meals and naps to happen in the way that suits her lifestyle. I’m not sure what all the comments about the quality of her enjoyment of breastfeeding are about, but it’s feeding not a competition.
I’d really really struggle to maintain a real relationship with someone so openly rating my life in the way you seem to. What about just visiting and having some fun together rather than seeking to improve how she’s living her life?

I may be projecting a bit, as I look back on the days when my children were little and think I was too rigid and quick to feel criticised. I do recognise that it was 100% rooted in anxiety and perfectionism.

It sounds to me like OP’s DIL finally snapped. I agree it’s not ideal but I think OP overstepped. They could argue forever over the degree to which each party has been unreasonable but at the end of the day the OP was in their home and undermined their parenting.

The childhood years are so short really, I think the OP might be better off biting her tongue and trying to look for the positives (of which there are lots as DIL clearly cares very much). At the moment it sounds as though she’s at risk of being frozen out.

I'm totally with the OP - dil needs to take that stick out of her arse! She sounds like such hard work. She needs to get used to occasional breaks in routine because it's impossible to live a whole life around children's lunch and nap times. OP wasn't letting him skip lunch, she was taking him to a café, which is a perfectly normal thing to do and dil told her in no uncertain terms to bring him home. She's being far too rigid.

And with this latest thing, OP was mindful of their no costing rule so took him downstairs - dil has chosen to take OPs explanation of child being cold as criticism of her house. Some people are just chippy and look for offence to take.

Relationships aren't static - everyone has to be a bit fluid and accept some behaviours they wouldn't ideally choose but are part of the other person's personality. Unfortunately for dil's, they feel like the young child stage will last forever and don't appreciate that the mil stage comes around very quickly.
If she doesn't chill a bit, the teenage years are going to be interesting!

OP, not read whole thread yet but have you addressed with your son, the things his father said and did, which damaged your relationship. There may well be a bit of leftover parental alienation going on here, which is colouring their view of you.

OP is probably focussing on dil because dil was the one talking!

Why take him downstairs when his own room was available and presumably the same temp.

I agree why couldn't her son speak to her himself? Sounds a horrible atmosphere.

I think if I’d just moved house with a new baby and my toddler got out of bed to find his Dad who’s bed was full of a visitor I would expect that visitor to wake me up, not take my child downstairs. I think if my MIL who visits rarely from far away had come to stay and I’d let her take my toddler out for the morning I would expect them back for lunch rather than a text saying they’d be stopping out a bit longer.

This.

If you knpwnthey like to keep to regular mealtimes, for example, why would you intentionally push the boundary by keeping the children out longer?

It's easy to say you repect their way of doing things and their house, their rules but if you don't actually do it, it's just words.

I'm 50 and not yet a grandparent but I am quite clear that, outside of actual neglect, I will support my children and my partner's children in their parenting choices even if they weren't how I did it.

Yes, I've successfully brought up 2 children. I did it my way and it worked for me/us but that's not the only way to do it.

It doesn't matter whether people think your son and daughter in law are too rigid. They've set their boundaries and, if you don't respect them, they might well be consequences for that.

Presumably because there was nowhere in that room where OP could sit to cuddle him and get him warm.

Has no-one on here ever made the slightest error of judgement when half awake?
This was not a cardinal sin worthy of denying a grandparent contact with her DGCs. It really wasn't.

What do you mean by 'but also asked if I could be myself with the kids'? Did you mean doing things how you did them with your children rather than by her rules? If so, you haven't really taken on board what your DIL has said, even after the 'lecture' from her.

You insisting that you want to do things your way is a criticism of her parenting.

I can see how taking him downstairs wound her up- that was probably a mistake- but generally you’re clearly a doting grandma so i think you just need to give them some space.

She does sound very rigid but I recall being so sleep deprived when mine were small (small age gap) that I was very rigid about routines etc and probably projected that onto my own parents and Inlaws (who both looked after them occasionally). As they slept better and got older, I def chilled out!

He was freezing! As much as I want want to respect his routine and his parents' choices, I couldn't send a small child back to bed cold.

To be honest if the 3 year old is unzipping his bag and climbing out of his cot then he's too old for both. I'd have been worried about putting him back in just to climb out again.

The only other option would be to wake the parents, which they'd probably prefer given how unbelievably controlling they sound, but I suspect op (wrongly) thought she'd let let them sleep and have a cuddle with her grandson instead.

I don't see the big deal, I bet he loved it, the parents got a bit more sleep and it's One Time?!

Presumably, you raised your children the way you thought was right. I know I did.

It doesn't matter whether you, the OP or anyone else thinks she's too rigid. It's actually irrelevant.

The children are very young. It's pointless speculating about the teenage years. Maybe they'll become more flexible as the children grow, maybe the children will thrive on it, maybe it'll be a shit show. Who knows?

But that's for the parents to navigate and learn along the way. Like we all do.

If she rarely sees them due to distance I suspect she means, can't she enjoy seeing them and be a bit "fun" without having to worry about every single thing at the risk of being lectured like a child.

Why didn't they get up and deal with their 3 year old who has gotten out of their cot?

What were you meant to do? Just ignore the 3 year old who was out of bed in the middle of the night on his own?

She was telling me that she couldn't go to an all day Xmas thing with her NcT group because of nap times so I just suggested he perhaps sleep in the pushchair.

You really aren’t getting it OP. Children are different. What worked for you doesn’t work for everyone.

I would have loved to have a baby who slept in their pushchair so I could go out and about more. Unfortunately my baby took 20 minutes of walking to get her to nap and she pinged awake as soon as the pushchair stopped moving, unless I parked it very carefully in our dark quiet hallway. She has since had a medical condition diagnosed.

If my MIL had suggested that DD just sleep in her pushchair for an outing it would have annoyed me intensely … it’s a bit like airily saying “why not just go to bed earlier” to an exhausted insomniac.

Parents who follow routines, yes sometimes it’s ideological, but often it’s because they tried the freewheeling approach and nobody slept or ate and it was hellish. (And vice versa of course - some parents try routine first and swap to a more on demand approach when routine doesn’t work for their child).

If you want to salvage this you really need to stop making suggestions of any sort.

DIL reacted badly yes but it seems clear it was the last straw after a lot of drip drip drip comments about why doesn’t she just do things your way.

The crucial thing in all this is that she isn't your daughter. So the relationship is completely different than if she was. I don't have GC but I know if I did I wouldn't say anything to any DIL I may have but would be more likely to speak my daughter. (I hope I wouldn't say anything). I had a very rocky relationship with my MIL for years because I took offence at things she said to me when I had babies. Looking back they were perfectly innocuous comments but I perceived them as criticism. They weren't, I was sleep deprived, lacking in confidence and very, very touchy. I regret now how I treated her.

Rigid routines, the back to bed thing I find silly. I didn't parent like that and I think it makes life more difficult but it does give structure that gets you through the day and if you are inexperienced it is reassuring. Some people are very routine based too. But I'm not entirely confident that I would say my parenting was "right", it was lazy in some ways and quite survival orientated. My children did sleep in my bed but that was because I needed sleep and I was too knackered to go through some lengthy back into bed process. I wouldn't hold it up as great parenting. I would say it was the path of least resistance parenting.

Your DIL probably isn't that keen on you, you aren't her mum, maybe she feels intimidated by you. She may well not look forward to you visiting and then when you do visit all her worst fears are realised because she perceives that you criticise her. I don't see what you can do other than apologise and see what happens.

What does that mean? What do you do when someone speaks to you like that? Have a huge row and never see them again? OP could do that and never see these grandchildren again, but as she is posting here about being upset, I assume that isn't what she wants.

What she can't do is have a massive row, tell her DIL that she is parenting wrong and continue to have a relationship with these grandchildren.