I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

@TiredRetired I have read all your responses on here - your dislike or issue with your DIL really shines through. I’m not surprised she’s snapped to be honest.

Her parenting is “fine”, she’s “doesn’t have a circle of mum friends”, she “doesn’t do herself any favours” 🙄

You sound very similar to my MIL. I can assure you that your “subtle suggestions” are anything but and just feel like constant criticism and negativity. All of which seems to be aimed at your DIL btw, not your son. My MIL does this too - there’s always some comment to be made about my meals, routines, parenting choices, how I play with my child etc. And of course it’s passed off as her “trying to help” but it’s really that she’s an interfering cow and can’t see things not being done her way. She’s so negative that her energy is actually draining. And actually she barely sees or knows DS so her criticism and negativity feels even worse. I understand there is distance against you - there isn’t for me. MIL lives 5 mins walk away and sees DS for 1 hour a month.

They have routines and rules in place because it helps them. Leave them alone. Some kids thrive on routine and others are more flexible, same goes for parents.

And as for your DIL not having a circle of mum friends…neither do I. Because it’s bloody hard when your DH works every hour under the sun to try and maintain normal friendships. The small group of mums I know frequently meet up at evenings and weekends child free to bond and have uninterrupted conversation etc and that’s often where plans are made. I can’t go to these meetings ups as my DH works away for weeks on end and I wouldn’t expect anyone to look after my child so that I could socialise. So eventually I just stopped being asked to them, which meant being left out of plans with the kids that were being made. And when DH is home we prioritise family time as we get so little of it.

I also have a child who would never nap in the buggy regardless of how much I tried. So there was a stage where I’d actively avoid full days out. And this is despite weeks and weeks of trying to encourage pram naps. I’d walk for hours with him round our town just trying to encourage it, but all I was ever left with was an overtired cranky child who’s bedtime routine was thrown off because he’s fallen asleep late when we got home. The handful of occasions he nodded off it’d be for 10/15 mins rather than his usual 2 hours which also meant he was in a foul mood later. So a simple “just let him nap in the pram” remark at that stage would have tipped me over the edge - because it sounds like it should be so so easy, when in reality I was finding it extremely hard!

Please think about all these things. I guarantee just stopping making your “subtle suggestions” will help a lot. I don’t have a close relationship with my own mum (that’s the way she likes it now that I’m grown up 😂) and I’m so jealous people I know who are close to their MILs. Hopefully the relationship with your DIL can be mended.

I personally could only get exercised over things that were actually unsafe and that wouldn't stop my children from seeing their grandparents. I just wouldn't let them look after them on their own. All OP did is take the child downstairs- not really horrendous in the grand scheme of things.

It seems petty and spiteful to deprive your kids of a positive relationship because you find someone a bit annoying or interfering. Maybe OP needs to wind her neck in but also DIL needs to grow up.

Guess what. I sometimes find my MIL annoying or passive aggressive but I'd never in a million years ban her from my children who she loves!

I personally believe that OP‘s DIL and most likely also OP‘s son (who was apparently noticeably upset as well) have been aware that OP has been judging their parenting. They most likely didn’t appreciate OP „subtly offering“ advice when she wasn’t explicitly asked either…

which is why they had already felt judged and had been feeling defensive before this last incident occurred.
OP trying to justify this by explaining how DGS felt cold probably probably sounded like an excuse and additional judgement (even if he was cold). Following this up by wanting to „be herself“ probably didn’t sound particularly insightful or apologetic either.

OP also seems to forget that her DS knows how he was raised. And apparently decided to go in a fairly different direction with his children. It’s therefore quite possible that he has fairly strong opinions about OP „being herself“ when it comes to his children…

edit: I accidentally responded to the wrong comment 😑

There is no consensus on best practice is there? I'd argue all day that granny in this instance is far more aligned with best practice and DIL is regressive.

@Allswellthatendswelll but is it one time? Because the OP has been clear on things her DIL has said it they sound very much like the words of someone who’s at the end of their tether and having a constant battle. I have a feeling OP is pushing her luck and undermining the parents at every visit!

I think parents often expect grandparents to uphold their parenting rules without question.
In my mind, grandparent rules are different and should be allowed to be so. What a sweet moment for the child, snuggled up all cosy as a treat with granny.

Op you'll have to grovel to dil and apologise if you want to keep seeing the children. She wants you to follow the rules and in my experience, parents who have these strict rules are probably in a state of panic about what will happen if rules and routines are not always followed . Possibly this will get better as the three year old gets older, starts school etc.

I can’t imagine being judged for not enjoying breast feeding!!!

That alone would be insufferable.
I hated breast feeding - hated leaking everywhere. Hated the feeling of it. Hated the endless need to feed day and night, I felt drained, exhausted, washed out and unable to do anything else. It was anything BUT enjoyable. You sound like one of those brain washed devouts of bf op which will not be fun for your poor dil to listen to.

That's you though, which is exactly the point so many users have been pointing out - the inability to accept people do things differently. A hard one for many to get past, it seems.

I look after my friends child from time to time - she is very over protective and won't let her own in laws have them unsupervised, for reasons she sees fit. So, I feel quite privileged she trusts me in this way.

She trusts me because I do things with her child, her way, and if I disagree (as I sometimes, though not often, do) I keep my mouth shut, because it's not my place, nor my business. Her child is absolutely lovely, so whilst I may disagree with some things, it's obviously working for her, without my input. Mine is unnecessary because she's managing fine without it.

All this being said, it's quite clear to me that Granny cares about DIL quite a bit, and shows concern for her. It's just better left unsaid, that's all there really is to it really, it's quite simple.

@Threeandahalf this is where the problem lies with relationships IMO. Why are grandparents expected to be allowed to flaunt the rules?! Plus, these things do confuse children! I’m not saying the shouldn’t be allowed to treat them but please think of the impact.

eg, grandparents take GC on on nice day out and feed them copious amounts of sugar and a huge icecream before they come home fit tea - fine, no issue here IMO. Yes GC will likely be wild and climbing the walls all evening and barely touch tea but it’s a one-off and everyone had fun.
Now, GP do the same but on a day where they are with GC in GCs house - not fine! Because in the days and week that follow they constantly want the same snacks all day. Why can’t they have ice cream that’s in the freezer right before dinner etc, it causes a battle for the parents!

I think you should have taken your gc into their parents room to deal with in their way when the child woke up.

I wouldn't be happy if my mum did this me and my husband don't co-sleep with our son or use duvet covers because of SIDS which can give a lot of mothers really bad anxiety. We also wouldn't want to create bad habits by allowing him down stairs in the night. The right thing to do would have been to wake your son or put him in his sleeping bag and back to bed. Then check on him in 10 mins. It might have caused them a lot of panic if they looked at the room monitor and saw their son wasn't there. She does sound like an anxious mother and you being there is making her anxiety worse. Do you need to stay over? Can't you stay in a hotel or just see them for day trips?

They're the family rules. As much as you may disagree with them, you need to follow them.
I really don't get why you just wouldn't put him back to bed when he woke up and if he couldn't settle and was cold, wake up parents to sort him.
It does sound like this was the final straw though.
Your response was awful to her. How else would you expect her to respond, especially when they were already unhappy with your choices? It reads like you're criticising her and have a disregard for your son and DIL 'rules'. Give them some time, then apologise and promise to follow their requests for DC.

Why is a 3yr old in a cot? Maybe he needs a proper bed with a duvet?

I’d love to hear your DIL version of this tale. You both sound a bit precious.

Any effort I make to point this out though ( I try to be subtle)

You're not being 'subtle'. Your DIL's approach to parenting wouldn't be mine either but you can be sure she's picked up on exactly what you think. I think you just need to accept that your son and his wife do things differently and drop the judgements, because that will be coming across in all sorts of ways.

Yeah ok, I see your point, I just don't really agree. I suppose if DC see grandparents every day then obviously they can't relax the rules. If they're seeing them as a treat then I think it's normal to do things a bit differently, in the same way you relax rules on holiday etc.

My children don't have grandparents anymore so not an issue I've got !

It's tricky. I have a MIL and a DIL (no grandchildren yet).

MIL was great with the children although never tactile enough to give them hugs or have them in her bed. Whilst not as rigid as the op's dil, frictions arose over things like table manners (MIL and FIL weren't hot on them) tidiness (MIL once emptied the recycling bag in the sitting room to play with the empty bottles and boxes) and expectations (MIL and FIL always voiced what a shame it was people had to work hard), playing catch in the sitting room.

Only when SIL1 came to stay and her son, aged 3, was allowed to hit my children, run away from the table in restaurants, push over my chairs, pull up and thrown the plants alongside the flumes at center parts onto the people below, and neither his mother nor MIL admonished him, did I realise that our boundaries were completely different. At that point I became much less passive where MIL was concerned. I realised that was well mannered and thoughtful and had a work ethic despite them rather than because of them.

It's a minefield and I'm not looking forward to it. If we get grandchildren, fortunately DIL and DS are 240 miles away and I think DH and I will stay in an hotel.

I wonder if there might be things that the op doesn't know in relation to her children's upbringing? Possibly things that her ds resents but hasn't told her.

Yes but even so I think both sides need to calm down here and find a way to get past it that doesn't involve 'you can't visit anymore'. They are all.adults after all!

You are being absurd. Every post is just criticism of OP with some rather unpleasant undertones. Op is the the grandparent - not some random lodger who just moved in or a degenerate who crawled thru the bloody window.

I agree with this. It's not your responsibility to do parenting- alternatively you could have asked your son to assist.

But your or my opinion doesn't make OP's decision ok. It's not her call. It's not her child.

I think this is the cause of the majority of grandparent/parent disputes.

You should have put his sleeping bag back in and him back in his cot.... if you ouldnt manage you should have waken her or oir son up and told them he showed up in your room.
Text her and apologise, tell her you were still half-asleep and didn't think.
I think she will come around eventually.

I parent like you OP and feel passionately about my choices. My MIL and FIL have very different ideas. Their disapproval of me is not voiced explicitly, but comes out in what I experience as undermining “digs”, ie. “You’re STILL breastfeeding?”/ “of course you’re tired…”/ “bla bla’s children are wonderful!” Etc etc.
My point being that your subtle attempts to advise and influence are going to cause a wedge between you and your DIL. Your approval of other parents’ methods are going to come across as digs. Even talking about your experience as a bf counsellor might have made her feel pressured as a new mum.
She and your DS have made their choices about how they are going to parent and the best thing you can do is be fully accepting and validating. I would write them a letter or email or something; explaining that it was such a big part of my identity being a mum and being a professional in the field when my job was to advise new parents. I’d carried on in that way without considering how it made DIL (and DS) feel. That I’m sorry and I will do my best to be fully supportive henceforth.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable bit your DIL and Son obviously see it differently. Your parenting style is closer to mine anyway so I wouldn’t mind your responses, but they obv have their own way. They sound very rigid.

Agreed. We spent years putting DS back to bed at night - if we let him go downstairs once e.g. because he was ill/needed to sit up for a while and have his inhaler, he'd then get up at 1am or 2am wanting to go downstairs for weeks on end.

I am a bit confused - what was your plan? It was midnight, not 5am, so not like you could just get up with him for the day. Were you going to take him back to bed?

OP explained she took him downstairs because they don't agree with her taking the child into her bed - they don't approve of co-sleeping.