DD being ghosted by flatmate but still living together. WIBU for her to move out? Should the flatmate move out?

[Fluffytowels24]

Wasn't sure whether to post here or on the SEN board. DD is autistic, adhd, dyspraxic and dyslexic.
She's had to drop of out uni for a year due to MH issues. This includes the trauma of being bullied very badly at school.
DD met her friend, L, 3 years ago when they were freshers. They 'clicked' immediately and bonded over both having anxiety, as well as loads of other things. L is from our home town and it turned out they had a mutual friend although they'd not met till uni.
This year DD and L decided to move into a 2 bed flat, after both of them had lived in party houses. L was the first person DD told about having to drop out for a year, and L was really supportive about this, helping her look for jobs etc. L had deferred for a year last year and this is now her final year.
Their flat was meant to be a kind of safe haven for DD, somewhere she could heal before going back to uni next year.
About 10 days ago L started being very off with DD, barely speaking to her. DD, L and a few others went out for Halloween and L started acting normally towards DD, so DD assumed that whatever had upset L had passed. But then when they were back in the flat, L started shunning her again. She's absolutely ignoring her: won't say good morning, if DD tries to make small talk L literally ignores her. DD has messaged to ask L what is upsetting her, please can she tell her, and that she's very sorry for whatever it is that has caused her to start ignoring her. But L just reads the messages and doesn't reply.
When a mutual friend came round, L behaved completely normally towards him, then promptly went back to ignoring DD after he had left. So I don't think that L has gone into a severe depression.
DD is obviously really hurt and confused by this. She has written notes to L which L has totally ignored, leaving them where DD has put them out (e.g. in the kitchen).
DD has wracked her brains and really can't think of anything she has done to upset L. They've not had an argument or anything. DD is a good flatmate, she cleans up after herself, doesn't leave a mess etc. She and L spent a lot of time making the flat nice and homely when they first moved in. But now DD doesn't want to live there as she's got to share with someone who's literally ghosting her, but living with her.
They haven't lived together before but they went backpacking last year and had a really nice time; they seemed to be compatible in terms of sharing space, drinking levels, going to bed at similar times etc.
I am not sure where we can go from here -
DD has come home for a long weekend as a friend from school lost her mother and she had to go to the funeral. She doesn't want to go back to the flat now. (When DD told L why she was coming home, she just said 'OK' and didn't say anything about the funeral)

The lease is till June. I think it would be very unreasonable to expect DD to live in this environment for the next 9 months, being shunned and not knowing why.

If anyone has been in a similar situation I would really welcome any suggestions. Many thanks x

@Fluffytowels24 I've read all of your posts and updates and I just wanted to say you sound like such a lovely, caring mum ❤️

I've had a similar situation happen at uni, but not to this extent. It's awful for those on the receiving end and your daughter is very fortunate to have you looking out for her

I'm so sorry to read this and it must be horrible for your DD. I have a DD in a flat share and even though they have moved out you still can't help worrying and hoping all will be fine. She too was badly bullied at school, so would find this very triggering.

Your DD sounds like she has developed a really good social circle and interests, and I wonder if there is an element of jealousy going on.

Regardless, this has been going on for too long now, and I think your DD needs to contact L and say that it is untenable to continue, and they can either decide to talk it through or one of them will need to move out and does L have a preference as to which it should be.

Wishing your DD good luck with it.

I think @Lavender14 's post had some excellent advice and way of putting things. She also has a really good point about the over-sensitivity and wrong interpretations that people can put on things, particularly when in a fragile mental state.

From the updates it feels like you're getting more worked up and speculating in a vacuum, which is not how you were at the start of the thread. Whilst I don't agree with the behaviour, I also think it's wrong to jump to wild imaginings about L rifling through DD's things or that L picked out DD because she's vulnerable like some sort of fiendish strategy. This sounds incredibly unlikely and not very real life to me. They have been friends for ages, years, and travelled together. Something has changed. Don't allow yourself to imagine motives that aren't there. I don't think that's helpful for DD.

If DD hasn't asked directly yet then that is a very obvious first step. Getting all worked up and angry before doing this is counterproductive. DD is switching now from massive self-blame to anger. But she still hasn't actually just directly asked L. This is a human reaction obviously and I'm not criticising DD, but one of the most helpful strategies in life sometimes is to try and learn to put something between yourself and a situation so you can act calmly and not let it eat away at you too much. Perhaps you could help take the emotion out so DD can handle the situation easier. It doesn't mean anyone has to be a walkover. It can be a useful thing for future situations also to learn how to do this.

The other suggestion I haven't seen made is for a mutual friend to simply ask L if there's anything wrong. If she's talking normally to DD's friends, can't one of them, one-to-one, say "DD is concerned she's done something to upset you, is everything ok at the moment?" Perhaps it would have been more useful for DD's friend to have met up with L and given her an opportunity to say.

What hasn't been considered very much is more practical or outside reasons. A diagnosis of serious illness for a family member, family break-ups that she may feel she can't talk about, or serious problems or financial difficulties back home. The former would be a very difficult situation she might not be handling well. If she or her family have serious financial problems maybe she is in a frozen state or subconsciously or consciously sabotaging the flatshare out of sheer panic?

As you know, I don't approve of ghosting. But these people are all young and not experienced in how to handle big life situations and a lot of them seem to have been taught that ghosting is an acceptable way to signal whatever. It may be she is just being unreasonable over trivia, or it may be she has something really big going on and is handling it badly. Whichever, imagining lots of dastardly motives before asking face-to-face what the issue is, is not going to help. Keeping an open mind and dealing with the situation as calmly as possible to get a fair workable situation for your DD, as @Lavender14 says, seems the most sensible way.

@Kirova your post is really excellent. Something that's gone on so long, she can't see how to easily row back from again could be a very likely scenario.

It is really hurtful and shocking when these things happen. Attachment issues are rife unfortunately and I’ve experienced this sort of thing quite a few times, as have other people I know. I think you are right in looking at her friendship history and initially thinking she may just have been unlucky at school, however now it is more likely that this is a pattern of behaviour for her. I’m sure your daughter will be able to move on from this in time, it’s great she has other friends she can lean on. From my experience people like this can absolutely ‘love bomb’ at the start of the friendship and then disregard and drop the person quite quickly when their needs are no longer being met - or there is someone else to focus on! Intensity in friendships / relationships is a red flag for this very reason.

I’m glad your DD can move out, hopefully a new tenant can be found quickly.

wild imaginings ... that L picked out DD because she's vulnerable like some sort of fiendish strategy

I'm one of the people who brought this idea up. I want to clarify that neither I or others meant to imply a deliberate three-year plan. We all have unconscious patterns driving our behaviours which, for many of us, lead to uncomfortable sequences of events. It's only after several repetitions of a sequence that we begin to realise we may have issues; very few come to this insight as soon as our early twenties.

I posted that I had a flatmate who went from closest pal to weird frenemy. She had, it turned out, done similar with her previous flatmates and has done it again since. It seems L has no lasting friendships from either school or uni: it's quite possible that she's locked into a dysfunctional behaviour pattern.

Absolutely no one has said "she did X, she must be autistic", and this is a really insulting and trivialising way to respond to those like me who have commented to point out parallels between L's behaviour and our experiences around the same age of being on both ends of similar dramas and disputes (while acknowledging her actions are wrong, not justifying them), speaking as actual ND women ourselves. Yet somehow you seem to be missing my comments out...?

Cross-posted about attachment issues, @Plastictrees. To follow on from my post just now, I eventually understood that my own dysfunctional patterns led me to be too helpful, too tolerant and flexible. I had weak boundaries. I'm certain this made me an ideal target for the abusive friend - who was doubtless equally unaware of her schema playing on repeat - just as it did for my two abusive husbands.

I completely relate. I was far too accommodating, flexible and helpful for my own good and also managed to attract friends and partners who took advantage of those traits, due to their own attachment style and unmet needs. It is only since I managed to have stronger boundaries that I no longer have people like that in my life. It is sad in a way that such positive traits can make someone vulnerable, but a valuable life lesson also.

So sorry that you and your DD are going through this, OP.
This 'ghosting' seems to be a fairly new social phenomenon and a truly damaging one. The closest I've been to it is reading Enid Blyton books as a child. They would send a girl 'to Coventry' for the most heinous crimes, but they all agreed beforehand how long it would last, and told her. This open-ended ignoring of DD must have been a nightmare.
My feeling is that whatever is going on, DD needs to be helped to leave the flat and distance herself from the 'friendship' with L and with anyone who is supporting her in behaving like this. Maybe counselling would help, or just you and her other friends assuring her that this kind of behaviour is a horrible modern fad and in no way reflects any mistakes she may have made in relation to L.
Also DD needs know that perhaps she has been tactless or thoughtless at times and offended her friend in some way; haven't we all done things like that, ND or not; but whatever she has unintentionally said or done to upset her doesn't deserve this silent treatment. With any luck in future she will choose friends who don't do this kind of thing.

DD went back to her flat today and L was acting as if nothing had happened!!

L seemed a bit sheepish but other than that acted completely normally. She has gone to visit her brother (who is at uni elsewhere) this weekend and was saying she and DD must go and do the pub quiz on Tuesday.

Whilst DD is extremely relieved by this latest update she is very weirded out by the whole thing. Obviously whatever was making L annoyed has passed or L has decided to forgive her for whatever it was that had aggrieved her.

DD is going go ask her what tf was wrong when they hang out on Tuesday.

So going forward, she will be on her guard now! All very odd. Thank you everyone for your support I really appreciate it x

I’m glad your DD is feeling better, but I think you need to take a step back and look at how you’ve handled this whole thing. Falling out with flatmates is not unusual, and someone needing their space for a few weeks while they work through something is not usual either.

Rather than reassure your DD that L was probably just going through something, to give her space and wait for her to say something, you jumped to wanting a confrontation and spent time with your DD analysing her behaviour to figure out what she had done that could possibly have been misconstrued.

I get that DD is more vulnerable. And you know what, I get that she isn’t the only one traumatised by previous bullying. I am sure your heart broke to see her in pain and your anxiety was triggered seeing a problem and not being able to fix it.

It’s easy to worry that DD will struggle with friendships due to her DSD. But even NT people can struggle. Sometimes we are the cause of friendship problems, sometimes we are without blame.

DD is going to have issues with other people in the future. What she needs is to know how much she is loved (it’s very obvious how much you love her from your posts, so I have no doubt she knows it!), that she has her own unique strengths, and that not everyone will like her and that’s ok.

We don’t go to therapy enough in this country. But most people have access to it, for free, either through their employer or a relative’s employer.

I don’t think you’re over DD’s previous struggles. You talk about her being triggered, but I sense you always try to take as much of the stress away and absorb it yourself, which has an impact on you. You are constantly trying to support DD. Who is supporting YOU?

And if L decides to stop speaking to her again on Friday? The whole thing sounds like L is playing with her emotions, deliberately or owing to her own issues.

DD is going go ask her what tf was wrong when they hang out on Tuesday.

Warn your DD that if she does this, there's a good chance that L will go back to giving her the silent treatment. I speak from experience - people who engage in this behaviour do not like being challenged or held accountable for it, however tentatively DD tries to do it.

I'm not in the least bit surprised that L is trying to pretend this never happened. My advice to your DD is to 'play along' so that the atmosphere isn't shit at home, but back away from the friendship and detach. Move in other circles, busy with other friends as much as possible, be civil flatmates but never be proper friends again. And move out as soon as it is feasible.

If DD sweeps this under the rug purely out of relief that she's not being ignored anymore, all that will happen is she'll be waiting for the next time L decides to give her the silent treatment, and it'll quickly become a toxic cycle that will be dreadful for DD's MH.

That’s good news. I had a feeling that with a bit of a break away from each other for a week, L might do a bit of self reflection or simply revert back to normal.

If DD wants to bring it up and talk about it with L then fair enough. But to be honest, I wouldn’t even bother. DD knows what L is like now…that she might have a few issues, and she knows that with a break away she reverts back to normal. There won’t be that much longer before the end of the contract. They are simply flat mates. It’s not as if they are in a relationship. If anything I would encourage DD to just get on with it without any more drama. This is sometimes how life is. People behave oddly at times. Just ignore and develop some resilience to turn a blind eye and get on with other more reliable friends/ work/bf etc

I also agree with a pp that it would now be a good time to step back a bit more and let DD use her own, by now more experienced, judgement over flat sharing and friendship issues. DD does seem to have enough good stuff going on in her life to prevent major upset like this again.

Agree with pp she should just leave it for now. Not bring it up with L but just be aware it could happen again.

Maybe if they are still friends in a few years time she can ask, when whatever it is has died down a bit.

I think it’s understandable for DD to bring this up with L and get some more understanding of what happened. I can envisage that L will not like being confronted though, and may resort to more passive aggressive behaviours. L has not behaved reasonably - I think the extent of her silent treatment is not normal behaviour and I would be inclined to believe this could very well happen again. Hopefully DD can keep her at arms length moving forwards and focus on her other, more consistent, friendships.

This is textbook emotional/psychological abuse. I really doubt this will be the last time L does this.

OP, when my hostile former flatmate tried to be all friendly after a period of freezing me out I told her directly it was weird for her to be so inconsistent.She didn’t like being confronted on that so went back to being openly hostile.

I believe people who behave like that are just hiding their hostility until a time more convenient to them. If your daughter is anything like I was at that age, she will eventually forgive and (almost) forget and drop her guard again. And it’s then that L will start some kind of drama again.

She should try and keep L away from her friends as much as possible and keep socialising with L to a minimum.

Thanks for your thoughtful and considered post. I think you are right in that I have not got over what DD went through in school; it was absolutely shocking, really really vile. I think as a result maybe I have been extremely invested(?) in L's behaviour. I am in therapy however I had to miss 2weeks' sessions due to work commitments which coincided with all this kicking off

This is really helpful advice, thank you xx

Have advised DD to not ask what was wrong as I think you're very right and I don't want DD to become beholden to L's suddenly changing moods etc. Just go with the flow and make sure she keeps seeing her other friends.
I think the dynamic has really changed in their friendship; for me it would certainly be "no going back" territory 🙁

I think she won't like it either! And agree it might lead to more passive-aggressive behaviours. I am going to suggest that DD doesn't ask outright as I'm not sure if it will go down well, having read some of the more recent posts from yourself and others x

It is awful being on egg shells around somebody. L’s behaviour is a big red flag. Personally I think it would be wise for DD not to live with her long term.

I’m glad things are (superficially) better though, hopefully you and DD can de-stress a bit!

you saying that DD is autistic, adhd, dyspraxic and dyslexic and young for her age, and L has anxiety issues and took a year out for her MH, and may have diagnoses that you're not aware of,
They are clearly both a bit fragile, L may still have MH issues going on, and may like your DD be ND..

I'd generally assume that as young adults they need to sort it out for themselves - but given the ND elements, can you get involved and speak to L or her parents and find out what is going on?
Even if you do, it won't necessarily change L's behaviour - DD either has a few months of living with incommunicado flatmate and accepting that she is just someone who lives in the same space, not her friend, or finding someone to take over her share of the lease.

Yes it would. DD is the only student in her house and the other two are liable. Last year they were all students and got a summons as they hadn't sorted it, but I doubt this is the reason as it's easily sorted with a phonecall to the Council.

Yes I think DD and I are both hugely relieved that it's over (for now at least...?)
DD won't be living with L after this year, I think that she won't be able to trust her again!! In a way I'm thankful L didn't go silent on her whilst they were backpacking as that would've been even worse.
It's L's last year in uni this year (provided she passes her exams) so hopefully this 'friendship' will kind of wither once they aren't living together. Even if she does stay in the same city as where they are at uni, DD won't be living with her. Too risky!!