DD being ghosted by flatmate but still living together. WIBU for her to move out? Should the flatmate move out?

[Fluffytowels24]

Wasn't sure whether to post here or on the SEN board. DD is autistic, adhd, dyspraxic and dyslexic.
She's had to drop of out uni for a year due to MH issues. This includes the trauma of being bullied very badly at school.
DD met her friend, L, 3 years ago when they were freshers. They 'clicked' immediately and bonded over both having anxiety, as well as loads of other things. L is from our home town and it turned out they had a mutual friend although they'd not met till uni.
This year DD and L decided to move into a 2 bed flat, after both of them had lived in party houses. L was the first person DD told about having to drop out for a year, and L was really supportive about this, helping her look for jobs etc. L had deferred for a year last year and this is now her final year.
Their flat was meant to be a kind of safe haven for DD, somewhere she could heal before going back to uni next year.
About 10 days ago L started being very off with DD, barely speaking to her. DD, L and a few others went out for Halloween and L started acting normally towards DD, so DD assumed that whatever had upset L had passed. But then when they were back in the flat, L started shunning her again. She's absolutely ignoring her: won't say good morning, if DD tries to make small talk L literally ignores her. DD has messaged to ask L what is upsetting her, please can she tell her, and that she's very sorry for whatever it is that has caused her to start ignoring her. But L just reads the messages and doesn't reply.
When a mutual friend came round, L behaved completely normally towards him, then promptly went back to ignoring DD after he had left. So I don't think that L has gone into a severe depression.
DD is obviously really hurt and confused by this. She has written notes to L which L has totally ignored, leaving them where DD has put them out (e.g. in the kitchen).
DD has wracked her brains and really can't think of anything she has done to upset L. They've not had an argument or anything. DD is a good flatmate, she cleans up after herself, doesn't leave a mess etc. She and L spent a lot of time making the flat nice and homely when they first moved in. But now DD doesn't want to live there as she's got to share with someone who's literally ghosting her, but living with her.
They haven't lived together before but they went backpacking last year and had a really nice time; they seemed to be compatible in terms of sharing space, drinking levels, going to bed at similar times etc.
I am not sure where we can go from here -
DD has come home for a long weekend as a friend from school lost her mother and she had to go to the funeral. She doesn't want to go back to the flat now. (When DD told L why she was coming home, she just said 'OK' and didn't say anything about the funeral)

The lease is till June. I think it would be very unreasonable to expect DD to live in this environment for the next 9 months, being shunned and not knowing why.

If anyone has been in a similar situation I would really welcome any suggestions. Many thanks x

Yeah she was a cold fish with a deceptively sweet exterior! I didn’t realise she was like that until I moved in. And to think she was a (medical) doctor as well with zero empathy for her flatmate who was struggling to breathe!

This must be so triggering for your daughter
given her previous experience of bullying. Even if she had spoke out of turn while having a drink, which I massively doubt - it still wouldn’t excuse this near complete silence. I think L knows the effect it will have on your daughter and there is some kind of social/friendship jealousy involved as others have said too.

I hope it can be resolved asap, I think you’re making the right decision to support your daughter in asking her what’s going on.

Oops I was replying to this!

Indeed. Although I think the people defending L's behaviour are doing so, not because she is a woman, but because they relate to it and have been guilty of similar behaviour themselves at some point in their past. They are likely feeling attacked, so are pleading for understanding towards L and excusing her behaviour because in doing so they also defend and excuse their own behaviours.

In reality, there is no excuse for giving someone the silent treatment, stonewalling, refusing to communicate like an adult, or behaving in an emotionally abusive way. Mental health issues and neurodivergence can be a reason for poor social skills, but they are no excuse for cruelty towards another person. Frankly, it's an insult to anyone with mental health issues or ND to suggest that abusive behaviour is a symptom... when in reality it is a choice and a lack of empathy towards others.

👏 @Brazenhussy0 I couldn't agree more

But you are assuming the 3rd hand information put on here about who is doing what is correct

Could that be because people are responding to OP - a mother who's worried about her own daughter's home situation - about that situation?

It might disappoint you that this thread isn't a tribunal with both flatmates, both their mothers, their doctors and various witnesses - but welcome to the internet! This is what's known as a chat forum: members invite discussion of topics that matter to them, often in hope of finding solutions to problems.

If a solution should require the offices of a court, I'm sorry to tell you the case would not be heard on Mumsnet ...

Frankly, it's an insult to anyone with mental health issues or ND to suggest that abusive behaviour is a symptom... when in reality it is a choice and a lack of empathy towards others.

This x 10000! The whole she did what?! She must be autistic! discourse is actually really damaging.

Can't say 'Hi L, have you got a minute? I know you're really busy and also you're ghosting DD but there's a lady on Mumsnet who'd like to establish some facts'

I'm being facetious, but really, what would I gain from lying? No point in making facts up about this sorry mess, as then the advice given might not be relevant 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP, particular posters often comment to say that 'we've only got one side of the story, I'd be interested to hear so and so's point of view'.

This is Mumsnet and we only ever get one side of the story. It's just another way for posters to cast doubt on the OP's version of events.

If people automatically disbelieve what the OP is saying, it's pointless for them to comment on the thread. It's fine to disagree with the OP and think they are being unreasonable but if they think that the OP is just making stuff up, they should just report the thread and move on.

I’ve been following this thread and the mildest way of putting it is that the behaviour of L seems really bizarre. From what you have said, it also seems that you have given some consideration to L’s own potential issues, such as depression, and considered possibilities that don’t paint her in the worst light, so it’s not as though you came in with the intention of totally writing her off. But having looked at her behaviour in its entirety, L having significant issues of her own appears to be the less likely (though not impossible of the scenarios.)

I think you’ve tried to be fair to L as far it’s possible to be, but it’s only natural that your daughter is your main concern and priority.

A thought occurred to me: does your daughter have any contact/relationship with either of L’s parents? If she does, I wonder if it might be a possibility for her to reach out to them in some capacity and ask if they could maybe check in with L and find out if she is in any difficulty?

I DON’T think it would be wise for your daughter to go in and tell them the full truth of the situation at this moment, but if it’s possible to, she could perhaps give them a scaled-down version and say something like:

“Dear (L’s parents) - I’ve noticed recently that L has become quieter/more withdrawn and since I know of her past issues with depression, I have been concerned as to whether she is going through a rough patch. I haven’t been able to find out anything from L, as she has been reluctant to confide in me, so I just wanted to make you aware so that if you want you could maybe check in with L and ask her if she’s okay?”

Perhaps having someone close to her check in might force L’s hand to at least communicate something to your daughter.

Thanks @thepariscrimefiles I am finding this situation really horrible and I don't have the emotional bandwidth to be persuading people that I'm not making this up xx

Thanks for this. I think that she has met L's parents a few times but doesn't know them in the sense that she would know a school friend's family, for example. Like when you're round at the family home all the time. I think L has spent more time with us than DD has spent with her family... L met DD's grandparents for example, at a family reunion, because she was DD's plus one.

She has met L's (younger) brother - they hung out just before L went quiet on her. I must admit I did wonder if L is annoyed in some way about this, before I made my original post. Brother is about 19 I think. DD insists that she didn't flirt with him, let alone anything more. She has a long-term boyfriend so I don't know why L would be jumping to conclusions. I did suggest DD reach out to the brother with a message of concern, because her behaviour has been so extreme, but DD didn't really want to as she is quite shy and also she doesn't want to rock the boat or anger L.

It’s understandable that your daughter would have misgivings and apprehension about contacting any of L’s close relations, and certainly it’s not something she should do if she is really worried about it.

However, if she were to do so and L was to react with anger, there are two main reasons, as I see it, that she could do so.

One possibility is that there actually is something seriously wrong with L (as in a mental health issue) and L doesn’t want anyone to know, therefore could get angry with your daughter for raising the issue. However, if by some chance there were to be a serious problem with L, then it would in the long run be in her best interests for her nearest and dearest to be aware, and if she got angry about being “reported on” initially, she would hopefully at some point in the future realise that your daughter did the right thing in good faith and her anger would fade.

The second possibility is that there is nothing seriously wrong with L and thus she might potentially be angry at the awkwardness of having to clear this up with her family and make excuses. But if that is the case, then L would have no one to blame but herself as with her behaviour causing such distress to your daughter, she is essentially forcing your daughter’s hand into taking some kind of action. If L is not experiencing any significant problems, then she is being very unnecessarily harsh with your daughter - even if your daughter has unwittingly done something to anger/upset her that was the trigger, it is unfair for her to totally withdraw all communication rather than communicating frankly with your daughter and at least giving her a chance to apologise and put things right.

So in either case, your daughter would be nothing wrong by reaching out to a family member such as L’s brother, but that is totally her decision and it is completely understandable if she feels too timid to do it.

OP I think you sound like a lovely mum. It’s understandable that you are concerned. It sounds awful for your daughter. L’s behaviour is dysfunctional and unhelpful regardless of her reasons; stonewalling and ignoring someone like this definitely isn’t normal behaviour. It is unlikely she is behaving this way as a one-off and is likely a pattern of dealing (or not) with conflict. It is a shame but aside from asking her directly I don’t know what more you and DD can do. It isn’t a healthy environment so it would be wise for one of them to move out.

There is also a lot to be said for how you are handling this situation and what you are modelling to DD. It is unlikely that further rumination and self examination will be helpful at this point. Sometimes people behave in bizarre and hurtful ways for unclear reasons - it can be best to ‘drop the rope’ for your own wellbeing and accept you may never know why. Trying to seek answers may be prolonging the distress for DD. I think it would be helpful to focus on her resilience at this time and the things she can control.

Most of us have had strange relationships with flatmates at some point. I have anyway - I had a couple of odd situations when flat sharing in my early 20s that were hurtful and confusing at the time. It is intense to live with just one other person and a very different experience to most friendships where you just meet up sometimes. I’ve also made a couple of life long friends this way, so it’s a real mixed bag. My point is that your DD is not alone with these experiences and I think it may be wise to re-direct her attention on other things now rather than spiral further into rumination self blame. Just leave L to it. Encourage DD to focus on and spend time with the lovely friends she does have and in time the hurt from this situation will fade. L sounds very much like one of those ‘flavour of the week’ types and the friendship may never have been sustainable long term. Stay strong OP!

Thanks @Plastictrees xx
I think we are now past the ruminating stage. DD is now more pissed off (which isn't like her) than worried and upset.
I asked DD if L has any friends from school who she has met... And the penny dropped. I know you can be a lovely person and be really unlucky and just not find your tribe, and also that some truly horrible people seem to make and keep friends (e.g. the girl who orchestrated the bullying of DD in school was popular!) but L never had anyone from school visit her at uni when a lot or most kids will have friends to stay for the weekend at least maybe once during the year. The mutual friend they have is friends with L because their parents are NCT friends so they kind of grew up together. So we are both thinking that L has form for this kind of extreme friendship-ending behaviour. It's just a real shame she decided to ditch DD so early on in the tenancy!! 😩 DD can move out but until a new tenant is found and has moved in, it looks like she has to be the one paying the rent. No break clause as it's only a year long. Which is unsurprising but disappointing.
Quite honestly it feels like DD was love-bombed or something?! We absolutely did not see this coming 😬😬😬

It is comforting to know, in a weird sort of way, that others have had awful flat-shares too (I have never done a flat-share / house-share!). Trying to frame it as something horrible which we can one day look back on as, that was so fucking weird! rather than how awful and tragic the situation is. (Though as her mum, and knowing what she has been through, it absolutely is a tragedy 😢)
And that flat-share horror stories are unfortunately often a part of growing up / being a young adult. Three fucking years though! Such a slow-burn. She really did seem like such a nice girl 🙁

Also DD is still at home. So I am cross about this as it feels like she is being punished but for something she either hadn't done or something that's been blown madly out of proportion. Plus the issue of L now seeming to want to poach DD's uni friends is unsettling!😬

For goodness sake L is a woman of 21 or more! Do not go to her relatives! She is perfectly fine when her friends are round- it is the OPs DD she has a problem with for some reason

This happened to a friend's daughter- who is just such a quiet, but lovely mature girl.She had a really bad flat share experience in her first year, one girl turned the others on her DD which culminated in a very scary incident , leaving her afraid to even leave her room. The University ( Bath) were absolutely useless and her DD became very mentally unwell witht PTSD. Once leaving the flat and moving elsewhere she quickly built up a new friendship group.Another work colleagues daughter had a problem with her flat share with flatmates not speaking to her, and attempted suicide twice. Peer bullying is a common problem in flatshares and the dynamic is everyone turns on one person to bond with the others. It is a serious problem and your dd needs to remove herself from this situation.That is the bottom line
Go and speak to the letting agent to find out how to legally get out of this contract, and do it. Ls issues and motives are irrelevant now.
I suspect given your later posts that L latched onto DD because at that time she was a bit of a lame duck and vulnerable after the bullying, sjhe enjoyed being the strong one and your DD needing her. Now your DD has come out of her shell, the dynamic has changed and she doesnt like it

@BlitheSpirits I'm so sorry that happened to both of your colleagues' daughters 😢 and shame on the university for not doing anything about it 😡
That is a good idea about contacting the Lettings agency - maaaaybe they will be reasonable and allow DD to leave without the overhang of paying rent. Maybe if the landlord has insurance or something? I don't know if this is even a thing as I am not a landlord myself! But won't hurt to try...

Yes agreed she needs out and that is the priority now, not worrying about why L is engaging in this horrid behaviour. Feel like she has really shown her true colours and DD would not be able to relax at home if they are living together even if she 'forgives' DD for this, I think DD would be worried going forward / feel like she was walking on eggshells.

I suspect given your later posts that L latched onto DD because at that time she was a bit of a lame duck and vulnerable after the bullying, sjhe enjoyed being the strong one and your DD needing her. Now your DD has come out of her shell, the dynamic has changed and she doesnt like it

I suspect this might be the case which is a horrible thought as DD confided is L when she was at a much lower ebb than she is now (though she is still suffering all these years later 😪)

@Fluffytowels24

Could you contact the Accommodation Office at the University and ask whether they have lists of accommodation available to which your daughter's share of the flat could be added?

There may be other students who are looking for a new flat share in the New Year for various reasons - one of them might like to take up your daughter's room - the worry for you about paying rent into next year will then be taken off your shoulders.

For what it's worth, I don't think that the situation between the two flatmates can be repaired, so I think that it's better for your daughter to move out (as long as someone new can take on the room).

I think this is a really tricky one op and honestly I don't think anyone on here can do any more than speculate which might not even be helpful to the situation as its so out of context and as you say we only have your dds version of events to go on.

Houseshares can be really difficult in terms of boundaries, the intensity, differences in preferences and routines and personality and even though they're both adults, they are both really young in the grand scheme of things and will probably both learn a lot from this eventually.

I think you're right in that your dd needs to approach this with L in person and say to her "look, obviously there's been a big shift in our friendship here and I would really like to resolve this because I'm not happy and Im sure this isn't easy for you either, but in order to do that we need to talk and you need to be honest with me about what is going on so we can move forwards in a way that works for both of us and whatever boundaries we can put in place." And see what comes from that.

I think if she walks away or refuses to engage then tbh I would get involved and I'd go there and say you are aware that it's been difficult between them and you're there to try and mediate it because it's getting out of hand and they've a long way to go on their lease. That you're not taking sides or judging anyone and you want to help them both be honest and make an agreement together that they both feel they can stick to.

It could be that your dd has offended her in some way without even realising that she's done it. It could be a miscommunication or another friend stirring the pot and telling lies to one about the other that L has been very hurt by. I think you need to try to go into this with an open mind and no judgement if you want to have a hope of L opening up and being honest. If you go in guns blazing and tell her she's a bitch and a bully like some pps have suggested then she'll shut down - probably also feel quite intimidated and you'll resolve nothing and the relationship could sour further. Until you know what is actually happening here, as hard as it is, all you can do is support your dd to navigate it and take all the learning she can from it without jumping to conclusions.

I once had a housemate who fell out with me because she'd heard me laughing with friends in my room around the same time as she text me to ask me to turn the volume down on the film we were watching - I'd never got the message and was totally oblivious but she interpreted that as me keeping it loud on purpose and laughing at her. All stemming from her own trauma and her mental health. But it ruined what had previously been a good relationship.

I've been following for a while but haven't commented yet. It's tricky to read this situation without knowing the personalities and all the ins and outs, but I am not sure how helpful it is to imagine terribly sinister scenarios. More likely L has taken the huff over some perceived slight and massively overreacted, and now realises she's made an idiot of herself but doesn't know how to climb out of the hole she's dug herself into.

I work in a uni and I'm not 100 years away from that time in my own life, and I know how massively all-consuming things can be at that age with friendships, living situations, etc. Being an adult is a big step even if you don't have any other challenges, and I remember getting into some friendship dramas and situations which seem ridiculous looking back, but they felt so existential at the time. It is a period in life when one tends to imbue life events with a huge amount of importance.

So I think it's much less likely to be some wicked plot, and more likely that L has just been stupid and mean and now doesn't know how to climb down from whatever it is that's led to things getting to this point.

I'm not trying to be horrible here, but I do worry a bit about how identifying this thread is, assuming that you haven't altered any details. Hopefully there's no way that L or your daughter or anyone else who would recognise the situation would stumble across it, but maybe bear it in mind - since I doubt it would help the situation if they did happen to read it somehow!

Also (and again, not meaning to stick the knife in here), it really isn't the job of the uni to mediate between two flatmates as some are suggesting, even if they are both students at the same uni. The flat share is not university accommodation and it's a completely private arrangement. Unless there was something amounting to serious misconduct, the uni cannot step in - and even then, unless it was something which happened on campus or at a uni-related event, the grounds for doing so would be tenuous. Student Support and Wellbeing (or however it's called at your daughter's uni) might be able to impartially advise, or if there is a student adviser within the department, they might be able to also. But they wouldn't be able to practically intervene in any way. Apart from any legal and regulatory restrictions, universities simply don't have the resources to take on responsibility in these kinds of situations! In halls it's different.