DD being ghosted by flatmate but still living together. WIBU for her to move out? Should the flatmate move out?

[Fluffytowels24]

Wasn't sure whether to post here or on the SEN board. DD is autistic, adhd, dyspraxic and dyslexic.
She's had to drop of out uni for a year due to MH issues. This includes the trauma of being bullied very badly at school.
DD met her friend, L, 3 years ago when they were freshers. They 'clicked' immediately and bonded over both having anxiety, as well as loads of other things. L is from our home town and it turned out they had a mutual friend although they'd not met till uni.
This year DD and L decided to move into a 2 bed flat, after both of them had lived in party houses. L was the first person DD told about having to drop out for a year, and L was really supportive about this, helping her look for jobs etc. L had deferred for a year last year and this is now her final year.
Their flat was meant to be a kind of safe haven for DD, somewhere she could heal before going back to uni next year.
About 10 days ago L started being very off with DD, barely speaking to her. DD, L and a few others went out for Halloween and L started acting normally towards DD, so DD assumed that whatever had upset L had passed. But then when they were back in the flat, L started shunning her again. She's absolutely ignoring her: won't say good morning, if DD tries to make small talk L literally ignores her. DD has messaged to ask L what is upsetting her, please can she tell her, and that she's very sorry for whatever it is that has caused her to start ignoring her. But L just reads the messages and doesn't reply.
When a mutual friend came round, L behaved completely normally towards him, then promptly went back to ignoring DD after he had left. So I don't think that L has gone into a severe depression.
DD is obviously really hurt and confused by this. She has written notes to L which L has totally ignored, leaving them where DD has put them out (e.g. in the kitchen).
DD has wracked her brains and really can't think of anything she has done to upset L. They've not had an argument or anything. DD is a good flatmate, she cleans up after herself, doesn't leave a mess etc. She and L spent a lot of time making the flat nice and homely when they first moved in. But now DD doesn't want to live there as she's got to share with someone who's literally ghosting her, but living with her.
They haven't lived together before but they went backpacking last year and had a really nice time; they seemed to be compatible in terms of sharing space, drinking levels, going to bed at similar times etc.
I am not sure where we can go from here -
DD has come home for a long weekend as a friend from school lost her mother and she had to go to the funeral. She doesn't want to go back to the flat now. (When DD told L why she was coming home, she just said 'OK' and didn't say anything about the funeral)

The lease is till June. I think it would be very unreasonable to expect DD to live in this environment for the next 9 months, being shunned and not knowing why.

If anyone has been in a similar situation I would really welcome any suggestions. Many thanks x

Just seen this now. DD just really likes the uni xity; it has lots of parks, beaches, and stuff going on; it is generally a fun place to be a young person, even if you're not a student. She has friends there.

I really did want her to come home this year but she was adamant that she would stay even after deciding to defer this year

In fairness where we live is extremely dull and depressing, small so that everyone knows each other's business, nothing happening. She does have friends here at home though, and has been spending time with them in the time since she has been back... Which is coming up for a week now 🤔

She is going to go back to the flat this week and try and lay it on the line with L and say that one of them needs to sublet as she can't live like this, being ignored / sent to Coventry etc

But it is pulling back. She answered the text about the funeral. I didn't say it was normal behaviour I said there seems to be no room on this thread for wondering if this other young person is suffering or not coping in some way, just the attribution of cruel motives.

@Fluffytowels24 it's totally possible for one person to stress another out in that way. Not saying it's nice or defensible behaviour.

Also you keep saying DD isn't doing this, DD isn't doing that, but you only see it as your daughter tells it.

Good I’m glad your dd has a plan. I don’t totally disagree with a pp that sending to Coventry has always happened. I think it has got worse and friends now use it as a means to cancel people / friendships. It was still pretty common when I was a student in the late 80s and I have been in 2 toxic situations with student shares.

The first, was in my first year with randoms. The university allocated us all a room in a house share. They firstly started on a young woman, who didn’t want to go out with us in the evening, she was quiet and insular. She quickly moved out. I got on great with the other two, going out every evening but refused to just ignore her. Then one evening 3 weeks in and after a third person had moved in, I said I was tired after going out for 7 evenings in a row. This triggered them to completely flip and start bullying me. Two male and one female. Stopped talking to me, had a party in our house and didn’t tell me, staged an intervention, where they said I wasn’t washing up, which was a lie. No, I didn’t wash up their stuff especially after they’d used all my pots and pans and not washed them so I started to take all my stuff into the bedroom. Thankfully I managed to get a place in halls after Christmas. Such a pack mentality.

The second involved my friend in the second year. I was friendly with 2 young women I’d met in halls and this friend from my course, who didn’t know them beforehand. The young women weren’t great, wouldn’t take their turn to put money in the electrical coin meter, which proved expensive as the whole place was on electricity for heating. They didn’t respect the place for example one of them dropped rice on the kitchen carpet and she didn’t bother to clear it up saying the next person, who hoovered could hoover it up, so real idiots. I ended up sorting that out. Anyway they started saying horrible things about my friend. I didn’t tell her. I just convinced her to move out. It wasn’t that hard. She and I were sharing a bedroom and the flat was very old and uninsulated, stone built and like a fridge even in the warmer months.

@Fluffytowels24

Your daughter sounds lovely, and I think school/uni is the microcosm of what you will be faced with in later life.
This behaviour can happen in relationships and it’s having the tools to tackle it.
I think a strong message of : your behaviour is not going to affect me.
I absolutely wouldn’t pander to it with messages - because it’s feeding the flatmates behaviour.

I think it’s great that she wants to go back.

I think daughter carries on with a breezy, happy hello (knowing she’ll be ignored) and then otherwise leave flatmate to it.
DD carries on with her other groups, friends and activities.
But no more pandering or asking why : reiterate in you our daughter that this isn’t her fault, and she is damn well not going to let it destroy her happiness.
And then just contact daughter daily, check she’s ok, be there for her.
I imagine flatmate is feeling insecure about DD having broadening friendship groups and interests.

L knows [DD's history] and is still giving her the silent treatment!

it seems like there is some Wendying going on.

I was going to ask you about this. My diagnosis would be along the lines that L selected DD as a friend with known vulnerabilities, making her seem easy to destabilise, and as someone with assets L would like to obtain - her friends, and possibly more.

I know this may sound a little like the plot of a Gothic movie but, actually, people behave like this on the regular. I had a friend who asked - nay, pressured - me to share a flat with her (I was contentedly living alone), then gradually, ramped up behaviour I now recognise as abusive while 'stealing' my social life. It's very discombobulating, especially if you don't have a mum with the power of the world's greatest women's forum behind her!

So I'm seconding all the advice to get out of the share by whatever legal & affordable means and to stop wondering what DD "did wrong". Nothing. If she's pissed L off in some way and they're friends, she'd know about it by now. She's been caught up by someone else's freakish personality issues. The only rational thing to do is put distance between them.

It's fabulous that DD has her own social life. She doesn't need L, though of course it's disappointing to lose a friend. I do agree with PP that DD should find her anger - it's justified!

Just a thought ……..

Your DD seems to have a reasonably good lot of friends, hobbies and groups/clubs, volunteers placement, which keep her occupied in the uni town, whereas L appears to struggle in that direction because her cohort has left.
DD is happy to share her friends with L.

DD has a long distance bf, but L struggles and sabotages any romantic association (suggesting a lack of confidence in her own choices ?)

L tried to meet up with one of DD’s friends who couldn’t oblige as she already had plans to meet with DD. Might this have been taken as rejection by L ?

DD expressed an interest in somebody and so L then invited him round and then acted weirdly while he was there, creating an unpleasant vibe.

I think your DD is easy going, confident and successful in her interactions with friends, acquaintances, fellow students, boy friend. I would call that a big success given that she was bullied at school. She has had good support from you to help her through.
On the other hand I think that L is struggling socially and wonder if this is the root of her rudeness to DD.

Could it be that realising how successful DD is socially has produced some sort of jealousy or resentment from L who wishes she were more like your DD and L is handling all those emotions badly/immaturely, and blanking DD because of that.

Maybe a week away from L would have given L time to self-reflect or to make new friends to busy herself with - and her mood will be much improved. Let’s hope so.

If not, then I’d say your DD must gather the confidence to ask L, face to face, what the problem is that causes her to rudely ignore her as it is not acceptable without an explanation and an opportunity to put things right.

I would remind your DD that it’s possible that L may try to sabotage DD’s friend relationships as well as her own if this is not resolved as soon as she gets back to the shared flat. I wouldn’t entirely trust L as it seems possible that L wants what DD has.

I could be way off the mark of course, it’s just a suggestion.

Of course it is bullying. She is being given the silent treatment. As someone who has been on the receiving end of it, I can tell you that it is deeply unpleasant and upsetting. It ignores the other person's personhood. Especially as she is not saying why she is doing it, causing DD to wreck her brains whether she has done something wrong, worrying whatever it was that has caused this might alienate yet other friends, etc. She is not even being acknowledged. And experiencing this stressful home situation in a year in which she needs to focus on strengthening her mental health.

Not justifying anyone's behaviour, but that's not uncommon with flat sharing. Particularly when one or more flatmates have MH issues.
If you need space from your flatmates it's much easier when you aren't close and expectations are low.
I never moved in with friends, but every single time I got too friendly with my flatmates it ended up badly. I don't think anyone did anything particularly "wrong" but the proximity just got too much for one of us.

Ghosting a pretty shit, particularly when you live with the person, but I think your DD trying to get answers is just going to make it worse.
The best course of action is to let go and ignore her back, things might get better naturally.
Or move out if you can (but there would obviously be a financial cost to this).
Subletting is only an option if you trust the other person 100% and the agent/landlord let you.
I don't think it's reasonable to ask the flatmate to move out if she is technically comfortable with the situation .

The thing that really stands out to me is that L switches to behaving normally when others are there. That says to me that she knows she's being a dick and she knows others would ask about it and take your daughter's side.
I really hope it gets sorted soon, flat mate problems are so hard.

"I couldn't give a shit about the mental
Health of L."
This thread has really disturbed me.
@Fluffytowels24 there is something off to me about creating a thread where you can b*tch about one of your daughter's (ex?) friends.
Less than two weeks ago L stopped talking to your daughter. There are a million and one reasons for this. Maybe she's pissed off that your daughter leaves toothpaste marks on the sink. Maybe she's getting depressed again.
It's been TWO WEEKS!!
It's really normal for young people to be stroppy and childish and have fights and stop talking to a housemate for a couple of weeks. No, it's not mature behaviour but it's hardly evil. And it hardly warrants her housemate's mother coming onto a website to get all worked up with lots of anonymous posters who are proud to "not give a shit about L's mental health."
You say you live in a boring town. Maybe following your daughter's life like it's a soap opera is filling a need for you.
I really hope you leave L alone.

Might as well just cancel Mumsnet then if people can't discuss real life scenarios...anonymously. And no, it's not normal for young people to treat another person like this. L is free to do what she wants but she should have the manners to discuss her issues with the person she's sharing a house with. It's bizarre that you think it's normal behaviour. It's also bizarre that you condemn the OP for her thread but then join in the discussion and give your opinion.

I'm aghast at those excusing Ls behaviour. She switches to friendly and chatty in the presence of others, she is a bully and a nasty one, if she's pissed off or wants her to leave then say so, if this was a M/F relationship she'd be called an abuser and to LTB, this forum needs to stop excusing abusive behaviour by women, you even have violence by women justified on MN
Women can be abusive, bully's, violent, for no other reasons than they are horrible people, no analysing or desperate grabbing at MH excuses, just vile people.

@5iveleafclovers Really?
"Oooh, it's gloves off, see if your daughter can say something to the uni that will mess with her grades!"
"Oh, L's obviously just some loser who has no friends and is unsucessful with boys."
Maybe everyone else posting is in year nine but OP is old enough to have a child in their twenties. It's off to me that she would get something out of watching strangers on the internet lay into her daughter's housemate like this.
For the crime of ... being stroppy with her housemate for a couple of weeks and sending her to Coventry.

I was re-reading this thread last night and had missed this comment but L did go to an all-girls secondary which she said she really hated and was unhappy there.

Geez Louise! I'm not following my daughter's life like a soap opera; I'm worried about her and MN is a good source of advice for this sort of thing.

I'd much rather that I didn't have to post this situation, it's horrible 🤯☹ And fwiw I rather like our boring town. But DD doesn't.

Thanks. I'm not using this site to b!tch about DD's friend. I'm using it to get some advice for a situation I've not encountered before because I love my daughter and I am worried about her.

No surprise where she picked up these 'social skills' then Maybe your DD can take some comfort in that, as this is learned behaviour from L largely not of her own making, and IME the infractions committed to prompt this silent treatment are often nonsensical!!

My flatmate ‘fell out’ with me over something and stopped speaking. She had MH issues after her boyfriend broke up with her, they got worse. It was excruciating to live like that.
I moved out. No amount of talking could have repaired our previously close relationship.
Bump into her very occasionally, I think she regrets it all now but sometimes you just have to move on.

Quite honestly I do feel like maybe L has honed in on DD and was playing some sort of long game? Which is a really horrible thought.

I was going to ask you about this. My diagnosis would be along the lines that L selected DD as a friend with known vulnerabilities, making her seem easy to destabilise, and as someone with assets L would like to obtain - her friends, and possibly more.

She definitely wants to make friends with DD's friends! Her friend who she was trying to arrange seeing behind DD's back is also autistic and has very strong principles; she is very good friends with DD (they lived together last year, this friend now lives with boyfriend) and she didn't feel comfortable seeing L without DD being there.
I don't blame L at all for wanting to make new friends as hers have all left (I think! Maybe she just didn't keep in touch with them) but I don't like it being at the exclusion of DD especially if L is making home life for DD intolerable ☹🥺
DD has gone out of her way to include L in all her group nights out since this academic year started because she was trying to be kind which makes it kind of extra mean that L is now seemingly trying to 'steal' DD's friends.

@Fluffytowels24 If I posted on Mumsnet that my friend had not been speaking to me for two weeks, what could be goin in what should I do about it? And the thread went in the direction of posters saying,
"She's obviously jealous because she has no friends and no luck with men,"
and
"Could you get in touch with her employer to make things hard for her at work, that might teach her a lesson,"
I'd say, ok, thanks for your contributions, folks, but maybe not.
If it was a thread about a young adult child's friend and things went that way, I'd ask Mumsnet to take the thread down.
I'm going to leave you to it now.

It’s interesting because the person I know whose flatmates fell out with him had unwittingly upset some girls who persuaded everyone else to exclude him. They couldn’t say what he had done but I think there was some jealously at play. Some time later they tried to say sorry but the damage was done, including a half-hearted but terrifying attempt at suicide. When you are that age and living away from home your friends are everything and to suddenly and inexplicably find yourself cast out is devastating. Happily though they thrived subsequently.
I also know someone who again for no good reason was given the silent treatment on the say so of one person. Again nothing had been done to cause it. It just happened. The person on the receiving end of it had a very difficult and traumatic childhood and thankfully this gave them the tools to deal with this. Many years later the perpetrator tracked them down and emailed them a heartfelt apology. People are very weird and we can all be guilty of thoughtlessness and even cruelty but for gods sake stop being twats for you ‘mental health.’

L has acted appallingly. There is no excuse for the silent treatment and switching on 'everything is fine' mode when others are around. So sneaky. She wants to be cruel to your DD but not have others know about it. I'd guess she resents how self suffcient your DD actually is.

The most important thing is that your DD doesn't blame herself and allow this to be a scar in the future after they go their separate ways. L is immature and cruel. Even if she had a reason for turning against your DD, she needs to be adult and verbalise it.

Your DD needs to see L is acting badly and call her out on it. Either L shapes up, or she moves out. Don't let your DD just disappear as L would probably like.

go.skimresources.com?id=470X1716091&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-14060637%2FOxford-University-student-20-killed-cancelled-female-friend-told-pals-felt-uncomfortable-sexual-encounter.html&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mumsnet.com%2Ftalk%2F_chat%2F5207870-uni-suicide-tragedy-but-is-this-the-only-recourse-for-women-that-experience-assault

on another thread, how cancelling can end in tragedy.

There is zero evidence to suggest L is playing some kind of malicious long game. She sounds like another vulnerable young woman who is also struggling, and in particular, dealing with the pressure of final year. No one can expect OP to put L's needs above those of her own DD, obviously, but the number of posters who are happy to dismiss the very idea that L could just be honestly having a hard time and not some evil conniving monster is... really weird tbh. I can understand why OP is so biased against her, of course OP isn't objective and we can't expect her to be. But other posters should at least make some effort! L might very well be neurodiverse herself based on all the info shared in OP's many critical comments about her - we don't know. But she was unwell enough to take a whole year out of uni. She's relatively lonely and isolated, compared to the DD. I'm not saying I think she has good coping skills (!) or is being kind, but speaking as someone who was once a very anxious,very depressed young woman myself (and at that time also undiagnosed ND and undiagnosed PTSD), I have ghosted people out of sheer overwhelm and distress.

None of this is to say I don't have empathy for DD. I've also been severely bullied and understand the lasting trauma thereof. I know how deeply triggering ghosting can be. But turning this sequence of events into a paranoid quasi gothic drama just ups the emotional ante for everyone and makes a low conflict resolution (which would be best for all) less likely. I massively regret the interpersonal conflicts I had in my early twenties which led to huge battles, parental involvement, drama and distress writ large. I wish I had been guided towards staying a bit more low-key and calm.