DD being ghosted by flatmate but still living together. WIBU for her to move out? Should the flatmate move out?

[Fluffytowels24]

Wasn't sure whether to post here or on the SEN board. DD is autistic, adhd, dyspraxic and dyslexic.
She's had to drop of out uni for a year due to MH issues. This includes the trauma of being bullied very badly at school.
DD met her friend, L, 3 years ago when they were freshers. They 'clicked' immediately and bonded over both having anxiety, as well as loads of other things. L is from our home town and it turned out they had a mutual friend although they'd not met till uni.
This year DD and L decided to move into a 2 bed flat, after both of them had lived in party houses. L was the first person DD told about having to drop out for a year, and L was really supportive about this, helping her look for jobs etc. L had deferred for a year last year and this is now her final year.
Their flat was meant to be a kind of safe haven for DD, somewhere she could heal before going back to uni next year.
About 10 days ago L started being very off with DD, barely speaking to her. DD, L and a few others went out for Halloween and L started acting normally towards DD, so DD assumed that whatever had upset L had passed. But then when they were back in the flat, L started shunning her again. She's absolutely ignoring her: won't say good morning, if DD tries to make small talk L literally ignores her. DD has messaged to ask L what is upsetting her, please can she tell her, and that she's very sorry for whatever it is that has caused her to start ignoring her. But L just reads the messages and doesn't reply.
When a mutual friend came round, L behaved completely normally towards him, then promptly went back to ignoring DD after he had left. So I don't think that L has gone into a severe depression.
DD is obviously really hurt and confused by this. She has written notes to L which L has totally ignored, leaving them where DD has put them out (e.g. in the kitchen).
DD has wracked her brains and really can't think of anything she has done to upset L. They've not had an argument or anything. DD is a good flatmate, she cleans up after herself, doesn't leave a mess etc. She and L spent a lot of time making the flat nice and homely when they first moved in. But now DD doesn't want to live there as she's got to share with someone who's literally ghosting her, but living with her.
They haven't lived together before but they went backpacking last year and had a really nice time; they seemed to be compatible in terms of sharing space, drinking levels, going to bed at similar times etc.
I am not sure where we can go from here -
DD has come home for a long weekend as a friend from school lost her mother and she had to go to the funeral. She doesn't want to go back to the flat now. (When DD told L why she was coming home, she just said 'OK' and didn't say anything about the funeral)

The lease is till June. I think it would be very unreasonable to expect DD to live in this environment for the next 9 months, being shunned and not knowing why.

If anyone has been in a similar situation I would really welcome any suggestions. Many thanks x

From what you said in your original post, it sounds like they both potentially could find living with other people challenging. I think where you are going wrong is thinking it is all about DD and something she has done. It probably isn’t at all. It sounds like L is finding living with someone too overwhelming and doesn’t have the ability to handle those feelings properly. Some people ‘ghost’ because they don’t understand their feelings or can’t deal with an emotional conversation about the situation. It is horrible for your DD but you probably won’t be able to solve it apart from one of them moving out or both of them having a long break from each other.

I feel for your daughter - I had a roommate who I'd been friends with for years before we lived together, who stopped taking to me twice in the 3 years we'd lived together for weeks.

We are still friends 20 years later and I've never found out why. I was miserable and would cry every day and I think if I could do it again I'd move out for my mental health.

This 💯

Such an articulate, clear, accurate POV. Bravo! I hope the OP @Fluffytowels24 follows this and stops trying to dig for understanding. Sometimes there just isn’t a way of knowing what the other is thinking - and it’s more important to simply move on and rebuild.

Can you take her home and talk to the flatmate yourself?

I thought uni’s deal with this sort of stuff all the time? Maybe she can seek advice from uni guild? Housing staff? They help with leases and flat mate disagreements.

She needs to ghost the fuck out of the ghoster.

OP, I think L completely ignoring your daughter is totally rude and not acceptable behaviour. They live together so it seems odd to me to completely refuse to talk to someone. However, while I'm not saying your daughter has done anything that warrants this behaviour, but you do need to consider that L may be upset with your daughter or have a reason not to want to deal with her or even find it difficult to deal with her.

The only real life situation I cannot help equate this to is a mum friend who seems to me to be autistic or at least ND in the way she communicates and I find it very difficult to deal with her to the point that I now mostly avoid her. When we met she seemed really nice, we have similar backgrounds and careers, so I was happy to meet up with her and we met up a fair amount. She became too intense for me while at the same time being very difficult to communicate with. She would want to meet up very often, sometimes two days in a row, when she did come over here she was quite demanding and we went there she made me uncomfortable as I felt like she didn't want us there (even though she invited us), and I quickly decided no more play dates at her house or ours. She stands or sits very close to me which I can't stand and in conversation she often says something and then seems like she's not listening when I respond. I don't think any of this is her fault but I get stressed being around her.

I tried to arrange a meal out for us as a way to make some effort with her, as it seems like she always invites me to do things, and the way she dealt with that made me end up cancelling on her (which I never normally do) and have no intention of going out with her again. I content explain it to her as she did the thing where it seemed like she wasn't paying attention when I brought it up casually..

I can imagine being friends with someone and then getting closer and finding it difficult to deal with. My DH knows this person but doesn't get where I'm coming from as he doesn't see it only ever being around her for short periods of time.

I'm not saying your DD is like this or that she deserves the silent treatment as a result but she could be difficult for L to live out / deal with even if she wasn't at first, even if you don't necessarily see it.

As a mum you’re bound to focus on your daughter but it sounds like the situation is L has been upset about something unknown and hasn’t been speaking to your daughter for 10 days after a friendship that’s spanned at least a year. Overall she’s been a good friend to your daughter, supporting her and travelling with her, so this behaviour is out of character.

You mentioned maybe L is the kind that drops friends quickly, it seems that you are too unintentionally - you’ve already come to the conclusion the friendship may be too damaged by this and your approach to L isn’t very open minded. Her behaviour may feel cruel and unkind to your DD but, without knowing what causes it, we can’t know if that’s her intention.

What are L’s needs? Who would advocate for her in this situation if you’re going to advocate for your DD? She must have something going on to have also needed to defer for a year so I think trying to understand, rather than condemning her based on one side, might be a better way to navigate the issue.

@username7891 is right about this happening with house shares. 3 I was aware of while at university myself. Had a friend who was the year above me at uni. There were 5 of them house sharing and all had been ok. In fact they’d been in halls together in the first year, which was why they then house shared. 2 of them fell out early on in their final year when they were both having a night out but then bizarrely weren’t speaking to any of the others, who hadn’t gone out the night of the fallout. The other 3 genuinely didn’t know what they’d done wrong. Within a few months 1 of the others then decided to not talk to anyone either, so for most of the year only 2 people in that house were talking!

I had another friend who agreed at the last minute to house share with a guy he met at one of the societies. This guy had already agreed to house share with 2 of his own friends from the course he was doing. My friend and the other guy fell out spectacularly about half way through the year and they weren’t speaking, which led to the other guy leaving before the end of the year.

I had yet another friend outside of uni at the rime, who flat shared with a former friend and colleague. They barely communicated but were still flat sharing after 5 years. It was a horrible flat in a not particularly great area and I said to my friend why on Earth are you still living here. He didn’t know either!

You can probably tell why I never entertained the idea of house sharing after this!

There's not a mutual love interest is there that actually DD may not be aware of and L is jealous?

Also is the 'ok' message the first time L has responded/acknowledged without others being around? Maybe she's starting to feel like a prat but has dug herself a big hole and doesn't know how to get out. And this is her attempt. Otherwise she'd have continued ignoring?

I had a housemate at uni who did this, she would come downstairs sometimes in the morning and just refuse to speak to me. She was SO manipulative and toxic. Once she ignored me totally for 6 weeks. My crime? Having a new boyfriend (now DH, still happily together nearly 25 years later). There were four of us in that house and it caused no end of problems. I used to cry every day about it and beg her for forgiveness and she would refuse to tell me what was wrong/refuse to forgive me etc etc etc, it was so distressing. The other two are still my very dearest friends and we meet regularly. Petty and bitchy I know but I always effusively post about it on socials as I’m friends with the horrid one and we never invite her.

I don't think she has asked L outright in speaking terms, I will suggest that she does although DD is very shy (not really the right word, but she doesn't like confrontation at all and would find this very stressful).

Nice to read a post that considers the other side

The 'OK' message was a few days into the ghosting - DD had thought at the time that L had stopped being annoyed / upset (she had thought L had sunk into a depression at the time). Apart from that.. Nothing. When DD spoke to L to say she was going to the funeral of her friend's mother so she would be home for a few days L also said "OK" that was the last time she spoke to DD.

I did wonder if there was a love interest but DD is quite sure there isn't as DD has a long-term boyfriend who lives quite far away and hadn't even been to the flat and L is single.

DD was saying that if L likes someone and then they swap numbers and ask her out she will leave their messages open but not reply because her self-esteem is so low (L had told DD this way before any of this ghosting).

The only other "bloke" issue is that DD had told L that she's developed a little crush on a friend of hers or she had started to think he was cute (a very minor and fleeting crush; he has a GF and DD has a long-term BF) and then when he came round to the flat L spent a lot of time flirting with him really obviously but was completely ignoring DD. If DD added to the conversation she would ignore her and just carry on talking to this friend. DD said it was really odd.

As far as I know, L's needs are that she suffers from anxiety and depression hence her taking a year out last year.
And then last night DD mentioned that she self-sabotages romantic relationships.
I don't want to condemn her I really just want this flatware to work!

I posted earlier OP but fwiw - I'm a bit like L I think, or was when I was younger. I'm autistic albeit high functioning. I can jump into things and be very keen but at some point it all gets too much for one reason or another and I don't know how to withdraw. I suspect providing L with an "out" without embarrassing her will be key.

If your DD is on a year out why did she move into a flat and not move home? Is she working? seems like an unneccessary expense.

There's a difference between withdrawing and blatantly ignoring someone when they are talking to you face to face.

I'm not L, but sometimes when people can't cope they just shut right down. And that includes just "I don't know how to talk to her, so I won't at all." Now it's gaslighty and crap because DD is left not understanding what's going on, but I can totally see how L would end up here.

It is bullying and I find it odd you can’t see that

If your DD has a boyfriend but confided to L that she has a crush on someone else who also has a girlfriend do you think this could be a moral thing? L doesn't approve of DDs crush and is cutting the friendship off.

You are correct. I definitely wasn’t a friend to her by the end of it. She drained the life out of me.

Spiteful as it may be, I'd find the loudest, most annoying, party animal type on campus who needs a room & sublet (if subletting an option) and leave L to it.

Frankly if I could I'd move in myself and make the little madams life a bloody misery

Can't stand people who give the silent treatment
can't stand ghosters.

L owes the OP dd an explanation & civility as flatmates. She does not owe her friendship or anything else..

But If L cannot manage civility she isn't mature enough to live away from home.
Nasty little bully.

Despite the fact that L also has mh issues, suffers from anxiety and OPs dd thinks depression too, hence why she’s on a year off from Uni .

@Fluffytowels24

Team flatmate seem to think it's fine to have a contract with someone and live with someone and then pretend they don't exist. Just because someone is not your best pal doesn't mean you treat them like they aren’t there. That’s not fair, whether friends or not. If you were working with someone you don’t suddenly refuse to acknowledge a team member's existence. If you’re in a shop you wouldn’t just totally blank the shop keeper. These are normal human interactions and there is such a thing as being polite.

Similarly with a flatmate, you still have a relationship that is based on your mutual cooperation over the flat and how you agree mutual areas are maintained and run. If you want no interaction, no cooperation at all, you live on your own. Flatmates need to interact in order to, at a minimum, make sure the flat is ok, communicate about flat issues, repairs, problems, mutual areas, cooperate on bills or communicating over things to do with the tenancy and the landlord.

I don't understand this current trend of ghosting in normal everyday situations. If you need more distance either say so (or write so) or pull back a bit, don’t just refuse to acknowledge someone’s existence.

I see a lot of ghosting as something to do with the internet generation where people see people in real life as though they are interacting through a screen that can be ignored or switched off at whim. But screenlife is not the same as real life interactions.

The complexity here is they were friends due to their anxiety and mental health problems, in which case there might be more going on. Could she be seriously depressed, anxious or mentally unwell? Could there be something else going on back home that she hasn’t told anyone about. She may not even have the words to describe it. It could be that DD is making her feel bad about herself in some way. It could be that she is very down and can’t cope with the kind of conversations her and DD used to have for some reason. The latest you describe about friends and blokes makes her sound a bit competitive with DD, but that could be unfair. Who knows really and you may never know.

In terms of advice, those saying your child is a grownup are very harsh. DD is young and vulnerable due to shunning and bullying in her past and needs more good experiences to build her own resilience and self-esteem. She may be ghosted in other situations in the future, so needs to learn some inner strength and that it’s not her fault.

I’m not sure whether your taking over is the best thing to do. Giving her support to make decisions and take actions herself is more empowering. I would see if DD would like to have some time out at home, which might help her de-stress. Then,with support and care, sit down with her and see if you can draw up a plan of action together. Go through the options (leave, stay, sublet), identify areas that need more research (lease, subletting etc, talking to uni accommodation). Once she’s decided the options and what she wants, you can both draw up action plan.

If L won’t talk, then a letter is probably the only way DD can communicate. Perhaps setting out DD's choice and the process might finally mean L does engage.

If DD decides to stay, she needs to identify the issues that will need communication and how she will tackle this, and have an action plan to stop herself ruminating, by getting out a lot, having a routine, seeing other people, having distracting activities and goals and not expecting L to be the same kind of friend anymore.

Whilst I’m with you in thinking the other person is not behaving well, the best thing you can do is help your DD take the power back and build her confidence. She may feel guilty for abandoning L. But if L won't tell her what's wrong or let her help there's not a lot she can do.

She needs to realise because L is behaving strangely doesn’t mean DD's done anything wrong.