Christmas and a Muslim husband .. help!

[AmberHiker]

Hello everyone I’d really like some outside perspective because I’m literally drained from going around in circles with my husband .

He is a born Muslim. He is on and off with the level of practising but mainly sticks to the key principles of Islam but has not been praying for some years now . I am a revert. I am not a ‘ practising ‘ Muslim but I believe in Islam and what it stands for .

we have a 8 year old son and I have older kids who aren’t Muslim. For the past 11 years I’ve changed up Christmas but not given it up as for me it was never about the relegious aspect it was about the feeling , the gift giving and decorating the home plus enjoying all the foods and so on. With our son I still decorate the home and we exchange gifts a few days before Christmas. He is aware of who god is to him and to us and what we believe in.

my husband has really been giving me a hard time over recent weeks . He has stated I’m a Christian which I’m not and that I’m acting just like one . He refuses to agree that for me I’ve never linked Christmas to religion and he’s never seen me do it. He keeps going into massive tantrums pointing out I’m showing our son the wrong way . This is making me upset as I don’t feel we have much to look forward too in the uk and Christmas is a nice time of year. I enjoy the festivity and owe it to my older grown children to share with them.

when I point out that he is not doing anything that would identify him as a Muslim to me if I didn’t know him he gets offended. He is not practising not praying not fasting but is determined to take this away from me and our son. like I said if he was devout I could understand the possible problem by example having a tree in the house decorated but he isn’t and the whole thing seems so stupid .

for context he was previously married to a devout Christian who taught and showed him about Christmas ( this is where I think he has the impression it’s for relegious people ) and during their marriage Christmas a big thing in their home too, but so was bacon and alcohol. If I was to ask him was he a Muslim where he was married to her he would say yes he was yet that was allowed to happen …

sorry for the rant but all I do is share some gifts and decorate the home yet it’s a constant battle any mention of the c word and boom it’s a argument. He said I should spend the same effort showing our son about Islam but when I pointed out it’s his job as the man to lead he said he doesn’t have time to show him.. 😂

am I wrong to not give it up

Seriously OP I think you need to try to look at your whole relationship and consider if his behaviour has changed in other aspects.
It’s actually not fair that you have a young child at home who has grown up with this cultural marking of Christmas and it’s suddenly taken away. It’s like him deciding birthdays aren’t allowed to be marked.

This is a man you describe as “hell bent on wrecking any joy”. Really think about how he treats you and if you’re happy with it.

"Christian dominance"? Lmao. It's a culturally Christian country, where the King is head of the Church, but with very little in the way of daily religious observance or God botherers heckling us to live in Christ, outside the few madmen or charlatans you see in shopping areas sometimes. Thank God! Religiosity and overt piety are generally equated with hypocrisy, here as elsewhere.

We don't celebrate Christmas to swing our bollocks around and lord it over the infidel. It's just what we do here in the middle of winter, and have done for many centuries. It's a fucking great celebration, great build up, great food, great decorations, great carols and other songs, great traditions. Kids fucking up their lines in nativity plays, pigs in blankets in mini Yorkshires drenched in gravy, that one drunk auntie who has been at sherry trifle since mid morning, toddlers surrounded in piles of wrapping paper, dressing our pets in stupid Christmas outfits for a quick photo before they rip it off, decorating the tree as a family, writing to Father Christmas, seeing the lights switched on, watching The Nutcracker..... ah, it's all brilliant. And I hope every child growing up here gets to experience the local culture and sample the wonderment of it all.

You realise there are Muslims who do celebrate this? In some places this is a national holiday.

He sounds like a controlling arse and probably just uses the Christmas/religion thing as a way of being awkward and controlling. I am atheist and have a tree, lights, presents etc. Unless you make it a religious festival it doesn't have to be one. He's completely unreasonable on this.

It's stupid that you don't understand the way in which Christmas is a syncretistic holiday in the UK, that the people explaining to you how it's often practiced in a non Christian way are right. Because it's not actually particularly complex, and nor is it a matter of opinion.

However, you're right that the other aspects of it, those predating Christianity, aren't Muslim either. But then OP hasn't asked for advice specifically rooted in the practice of Islam. If she were an observant Muslim and had asked for help about the most Islamically appropriate thing to do, you'd have a point.

There are lots of Christians who don't celebrate Christmas as see it as pagan and Christ wasn't born at Christmas-time anyway.

So there are many Christians who don't see it as a Christian festival. And many non-Christians who equally don;t see it as a Christian festival but choose to celebrate for other reasons.

Surely you discussed all this christmas shit before you married?

You aren't even religious. You claim not to be a christian yet want all the trimmings of this bastardised religious 'celebration' (on completely the wrong date) of the birth of a person/entity who didn't exist.
You also believein Islam and what it stands for. Which is not christmas and copius unecessary spending and eating.

What do you mean 'by the phrase 'I am a 'revert'? And what does 'changed up christmas' mean?

They may well have discussed it before marriage, since there's been an established pattern until now of decorations and present exchange a few days before. It's DH who's now moving the goalposts.

Gosh it sounds like youre both far too judgemental of each other's faith. You must know it's very odd to celebrate christmas inside your own home as a Muslim. It's hardly shocking that he might have had a rethink about it.

Revert means she considers herself Muslim. Muslims believe all people are born Muslim so you are 'reverting' rather than 'converting'.

So quite odd she's so annoyed he isn't keen to celebrate christmas

It's not odd in the slightest, given that he's now got a lengthy history of being a Muslim who's involved in Christmas celebrations and is only now moving any goalposts. OP states he buys presents for his older, Christian children, and that Christmas was a big thing during his previous marriage. He sends cards, and for the last 11 years their home has also been decorated for Christmas.

Regardless of one's beliefs about whether this is appropriate behaviour for a Muslim, it's what this particular Muslim has done since OP has known him.

Christmas tree has nothing to do with religion

The post was asking us - the 50% of the UK who are atheist and the 46% who are Christian (ie most of the 67m of us here) - not just asking muslim scholars on MN. So I think we are free to answer. Different religions have different views. Some Christians will not celebrate Christmas or birthdays the miserable old cult like Jehovah's Witnesses for example. More people than not in the UK celebrate Christmas other than religiously - it is just the mid winter festival to cheer people up when it is so dark with 21st December being the shortest day.

Shia muslims seem pretty relaxed about it " Ayatollah Khamenei’s answer to question about celebrating Christmas:
Question: In common with Christians, some Muslims celebrate Christmas. Is there a problem in that?
Answer: There is no harm in celebrating the birthday of the Holy Jesus Christ (May peace be upon him and our Prophet and his pure progeny)." https://en.abna24.com/story/1095875

The thread is more about the pretty awful second husband of the lady who converted to Islam and has 2 atheist adult children who want to have a tree and presents and the little muslim son of the second marriage.

This is one reason why some religions find it easier to cut themselves off eg Amish, FLDS, Scientology - if you choose to leave you are shunned so your new beliefs do not infect those left behind who otherwise might be corrupted form the change of faith or move to no faith. I think that is fairly cruel and better if families find a compromise hopefully with the women taking the main decisions not the men as the women tend to be doing more of the work to organise family gatherings.

I don’t want to educate myself on the Koran or any other religion thanks.
They are all pretty much the same in that they don’t practice the love that they preach and they instead promote judgment, unlove, conflict and separation.
As we are all human and all have brains to rationalise beyond the confines of religious doctrine, the question of the family’s celebration needs to be based on all encompassing rationalisation of the circumstances and NOT based on a narrowly defined Islamic doctrine which does not allow for outcomes beyond its restrictions and to which he has not adhered to in any way for a number of years
Rationally, If he had wanted to lead his family in faith he should have stepped up and done so from the start, as he didn’t then he really needs to accept the quite rational understanding that it’s a bit too bloody late and unfair now to force everyone to bend to his new demands, he could ask nicely see if they fancy changing but to tantrum and demand is not love it is therefore not even a tenet of his said faith he purporting to be part of.

He's also not actually leading his family in faith, since he can't be arsed to show his son anything of Islam.

Vile and uneducated opinion

Yes I believe Christmas was first introduced by the Romans to kill worship of the natural world by pagans. Bastards. Now it’s owned by M & S we worship the great gods capitalism.

This is very true and the reality is that many Muslims, who are more observant in their religion, are very critical of other Muslims who are not so observant, in their opinion.
This is like any other faith, of course.

I know many Muslims who will simply take part in Christmas stuff without any emotion or thought other than hey, it's the holidays, let's all meet up on Christmas Day and have a big dinner together. If they want to give gifts or have a few decorations up, so what?
There's no need to be black and white. There are plenty of grey areas in life.

Look how many are being killed in the name of another religious state. Doesn’t mean I believe that’s what the religion actually stands for. Look how many have been murdered and enslaved in the name of Christianity doesn’t mean that’s what Jesus stood for. Likewise in the exportation of democracy. I think rather than the core principle in these instances it boils down to othering, dehumanisation and the fact that people don’t really need that much encouragement to do some really shitty things

this was in response to a rather hateful and ill informed post by ken

But you do need to educate yourself because none of those things happen in a vacuum.

who empowered the taliban and armed the rebels in Syria and invaded Iraq, imprisoned hundreds in a self governing prison that become a terrorist university, makes British born Muslims feel like outsiders and that they don’t belong by the very same spouting rhetoric that you are.

Honestly OP your whole thread feels like a joke.

He doesn't allow you to celebrate Christmas because he doesn't feel it fits his 'Muslim' identity yet also is completely non-practising.

You are a non-practising revert (?) and believe in Islam and what it stands for, yet also want to celebrate Christmas? Again contradictory.

He expects you to lead the family in religion, which is his role as the man in your household, yet neither of you are practising Muslims. Evidently, neither of you are the right people to show your son anything about Islam.

If neither of you even do the bare minimum of praying, I hardly think a Christmas tree will do you much harm at this point.

Ok, you're right, Islamic terror, kids being blown up, all justified, all somebody else (someone non Muslim) all their fault.