Christmas and a Muslim husband .. help!

[AmberHiker]

Hello everyone I’d really like some outside perspective because I’m literally drained from going around in circles with my husband .

He is a born Muslim. He is on and off with the level of practising but mainly sticks to the key principles of Islam but has not been praying for some years now . I am a revert. I am not a ‘ practising ‘ Muslim but I believe in Islam and what it stands for .

we have a 8 year old son and I have older kids who aren’t Muslim. For the past 11 years I’ve changed up Christmas but not given it up as for me it was never about the relegious aspect it was about the feeling , the gift giving and decorating the home plus enjoying all the foods and so on. With our son I still decorate the home and we exchange gifts a few days before Christmas. He is aware of who god is to him and to us and what we believe in.

my husband has really been giving me a hard time over recent weeks . He has stated I’m a Christian which I’m not and that I’m acting just like one . He refuses to agree that for me I’ve never linked Christmas to religion and he’s never seen me do it. He keeps going into massive tantrums pointing out I’m showing our son the wrong way . This is making me upset as I don’t feel we have much to look forward too in the uk and Christmas is a nice time of year. I enjoy the festivity and owe it to my older grown children to share with them.

when I point out that he is not doing anything that would identify him as a Muslim to me if I didn’t know him he gets offended. He is not practising not praying not fasting but is determined to take this away from me and our son. like I said if he was devout I could understand the possible problem by example having a tree in the house decorated but he isn’t and the whole thing seems so stupid .

for context he was previously married to a devout Christian who taught and showed him about Christmas ( this is where I think he has the impression it’s for relegious people ) and during their marriage Christmas a big thing in their home too, but so was bacon and alcohol. If I was to ask him was he a Muslim where he was married to her he would say yes he was yet that was allowed to happen …

sorry for the rant but all I do is share some gifts and decorate the home yet it’s a constant battle any mention of the c word and boom it’s a argument. He said I should spend the same effort showing our son about Islam but when I pointed out it’s his job as the man to lead he said he doesn’t have time to show him.. 😂

am I wrong to not give it up

Exactly and all of this proves the points of the Quran and why bidah is such a no no.

but this is the point with life as a Muslim in the UK. You are only ‘one of the good ones’ if you distance yourself as far as possible from your Muslimness, acquiesce to Christian dominance, celebrate Xmas and Easter, after all ‘it’s not even that Christian’.

yet no one seems prepared to understand even IF we were to concede ok it’s not a Christian holiday ( which frankly is stupid) the salient point is, it’s not a Muslim one. Made worse by the fact that so much of its roots are pagan. Islamically it probably would be better if it were a biblically defined celebration

"Op please don’t take Islamic advice from non Muslims.". Well she is free to do so if she wants and has chosen to put this question out there so we are free to give advice and it may be better advice than she gets from others. Free country with all kinds of ways that the 67m of us celebrate or don't at Christmas.

I'm not saying that Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity. I'm saying that there are ways to celebrate Christmas that have nothing to do with Christianity, and that in fact, the majority of of people in the UK celebrate Christmas as a non-religious festival. That being the case, why can't the OP and her family do the same?

I think if you're saying look it doesn't matter that it's Christian or not Christian, the point is it's not Eid, it's not Islamic - then fine. But if all non-islamic celebration is prohibited would that not include birthdays? Retirement parties? Bonfire night? Graduation ceremonies?

YABU - For marrying him in the first place, then moaning about the (expected) outcome. LTB.

My sister also married one of these cretins, Muslim when it suits.

@Saqah22 if you really want to dig into it you need to study Greek gods, Roman gods, go back much further.

Creating sense out of a world where people didn't understand why things happened largely led to the creation of many different gods. It's in human nature because being alive in a world where we don't know our purpose is scary.
It's also been useful in getting information out, preaching, sermons, wma brilliant occupational and way of making money, monks and saving people souls for a fee.
Too much to go into here but there is a brilliant documentary on Netflix about Mormon faith called keep sweet, pray.
That is about a modern day cult around a man and that pretty much sums it all up.

Sorry the point being you won't find a group of people who didn't purpose to belive in something but the bottom line of these particular celebrations is the time of seasons and year and that's it

Globally, so unlike western Christianity which for centuries had the pope as the centre of authority (I am aware of the east west schism and the Protestant reformation) Islam like Judaism has no central authority, but we do have scholars that have interpreted the Quran in order to define edicts and rulings on certain things.

there are four main schools of Sunni thought and the permissibility of Christmas has a pretty much universal consensus that it is haram.

now there is nuance within that as some believe you can’t even say happy holidays or happy Christmas (I do not agree) and there are some that say you can and you may give non religious cards to those who celebrate

but why would you give advice on Islam when you don’t know anything about it? That’s just weird? Would you go to your dentist for mortgage advice?

Birthdays are a point of contention, but it gets bracketed by many as a life event like graduation celebrations.

bonfire night, im not sure. But anything that has roots in religion is not permissible, like St George’s day for instannce, valentines, Halloween. Yes people now partake in those on a secular basis but that’s not where their roots lie and that’s why it’s impermissible

This sounds like he isn't against Christmas just cba with the effort of Xmas and using religion as an excuse for it.

But the OP's query is about how to handle the relationship with her husband who whilst born into the Islamic faith, does not behave as a Muslim.

She wants to put some fairy lights up and exchange gifts.

She's getting a rough time for this, from the husband who isn't even a practising Muslim.

This is a topic where the OP needs advice on how to navigate a controlling man. It isn't actually about religion.

Exactly this, seen it for years with my sister and ex-husband.

My point was only that many of these "Christmas" traditions are in fact secular.

And whilst I absolutely respect your interpretation, it does not appear to me to be the only Islamic interpretation as I personally know many sincere practicing Muslims who tolerate or engage in secular Christmas traditions.

Putting that to the side, it seems hypocritical and mean-spirited for the OP's DH take a hard line on Christmas, when it seems that he is not serious enough about Islam to follow basic directions such as those relating to prayer, for example.

That's what makes me feel this isn't a matter of religious conviction, as it would be for yourself, but rather a matter of the OP's husband being unpleasant and controlling.

But he’s objecting to Xmas on Islamic grounds isn’t he?

i guess that’s the distinction, is this it? Is it just a means of control and a wider pattern of controlling behaviour. Or is it, he’s recongnised that Christmas is wrong (Islamically speaking).

regardless, the comments from Muslims are gently trying to tell the OP, as a Muslim herself, that Christmas isn’t permissible and have suggested a few work around for her because we totally understand why she’d feel drawn to celebrate it

Born muslims can often be very hypocritical about their expectations from reverts. This wouldn’t even be an issue if you were a born muslim as you’d have a muslim family / thorough muslim education to back you up against his blatantly false allegations. If you know any muslims who do celebrate Christmas try to use them as an example

They aren’t secular though, they are pagan (which is probably worse from an Islamic orthodox pov)

and again many Muslims do what they shouldn’t, either through ignorance and mental gymnastics because they want to, or they just aren’t fussed. It doesn’t change the facts.

but I do agree that her hubby needs to put his money where his mouth is or so to speak and start implementing an Islamic lifestyle all year around and not just Christmas

As a Muslim revert I do not believe it’s a sin to have a pretty tree or celebrate with some presents and a ton of sweets . If I was going to church or putting a Jesus statue in the frontroom maybe .. my older kids are 23 and 17 they love Christmas and of NO religion. Life is hard enough as it is for us all and I am not willing to back down over this little bit of joy and magic of the Christmas season. To point out he buys Christmas gifts for his kids. He has wrote out Christmas cards and even gone to work wearing a bloody Santa hat that lit up ( taxi driver ) to get more tips / cash in on the holiday spirit … it’s only now after a decade he’s hell bent on wrecking any joy. I can’t even say the word Christmas . If any package arrives it’s all doom and moods .

Well not being able to say Christmas is stupid. That’s along the lines of Muslims refusing to say pig (if you know you know)

regardless of what you believe, you’re putting your naffs above the deen. Believe me though I get it. But I understand what you’re saying, it was alright when it suited him, and now he’s clicked his fingers and it bad and wrong and he’s huffing and puffing.

has he explained why he doesn’t want to? Because as we know Islamically he’s right BUT if he’s trying to be a better Muslim. (Not that it’s your responsibility to) but have you tried encouraging him to pray? Keep his trousers above his ankles, not trim his beard and trim his moustache. If I were you, I’d say ok sure, I’ll go without a tree but I want to see you do these things too (a bit of calling his bluff)

I’d be getting divorced in your shoes.

Christmas for many people has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It’s a fun time to make a warm, cosy, twinkly home and enjoy extra delicious food with loved ones. And share gifts you think they will enjoy. Kick the controlling arse out of your lives and cherish the time with your children.

If he wants to extol the virtues of a religion, he can spend the time and effort to do it himself.

Is he objecting to Christmas on Islamic grounds?

He was previously married to a devout Christian.

"during their marriage Christmas (was) a big thing in their home too, but so was bacon and alcohol".

Of course he is entitled to his views, his needs, his religion, anything. He also has the liberty to change his views, strengthen his views, or fine tune them, etc (we all are - life can be pretty amazing like that actually).

He is unreasonable to expect the OP to change to accommodate him to the point she deletes her own personal history for him. She matters too.

Women however are expected to do so for a man - this is not a commentary on Muslim culture. This is a comment about life on Earth.

He also commented that "he doesn't have time to show him" (his son), about Islam.

Context is everything. This OP is clear - to me anyway, this is not a post about religious differences, rather this is about a hardwired, difficult and controlling man.

(I am agnostic)

There have been midwinter festivals to mark the darkest days of the year and look forward to the return of the light since long before Jesus or Mohammed.

Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet within Islam and there is nothing unislamic about marking his birthday (without believing him to be the son ogmf God, which is unislamic definitely!)

But there's nothing particularly Christian about most of our Christmas traditions, which are mostly repackaged pagan rituals.

Yanbu op. You do what works for you.

OP, I don't understand how you can be a revert/convert and be non-practising? I thought that the whole point was that you wholeheartedly embrace the new religion and (usually) its culture, or one of them in some cases.

If you haven't done that, it sounds as though you have 'gone through the motions' a bit in order to satisfy the cultural demands of him/his family only - which seems like it would always be a bit of a recipe for this kind of disaster.

Personally, I understand why you wouldn't throw yourself into a new religion - most seem very ideological to me, and it's very hard to unsee the ways they seem to exist to enforce hierarchies, particularly the oppression of women. So personally I always think it's nuts that a person would suddenly think 'the religion I was born into isn't true, but this other one deffo is'.

But equally, if you've really just done it because the man who demanded it of you turns out to be (surprise!) patriarchal and controlling, I'm not sure how you thought 'I do believe in that God and that prophet, but I'm not going to join in culturally' was ever going to work?

Sorry to have a go, but can you see what I mean?

Absolutely. In my family we have v serious Catholics, kind of lapsed Catholics, Presbyterians, atheists, Hindus and Muslims. My family was originally v Catholic, but we are fortunate that people of other faiths/none have married in and so my siblings, cousins and I have benefited from that and had many choices open to us.

We do all do Christmas though. Some in slightly different ways, but we all have elements from my granny involved. She was ostensibly Catholic but in previous times would have been burned as a witch for her lack of active interest in churchy stuff and enthusiasm for engagement with nature that I have come to understand was Wiccan.

You have every right to celebrate what you want to, as you wish. To have faith or none as feels right. You do not interfere with his faith, he engages/disengage according to his inclination. That is his choice. You can engage with secular aspects of the season if you want to, especially with your non Muslim children.

If he was very devout, this would be more understandable, but as he is not, it feels like he wants to control both you and dc. I would seriously question that.

The term "revert" is so incredibly irritating.

What does it mean?

Frankly there’s nothing at all in OP’s post to suggest she only wants advice from Muslims and in fact she asked for outside opinion so that would suggest she is happy for non Muslim advice by her posting on AIBU too.

Personally I don’t think this is about advice on Islam.
She’s not asking how to follow Islam more, she has actually stated she doesn’t want to give up on Christmas.

This isn’t an Islamic problem, it’s a relationship problem. It’s a man trying to control his wife and children which we see time and time again, in this case he just happens to be using his religion as justification. And I say his religion incredibly loosely as he’s clearly Muslim when it suits him.