Christmas and a Muslim husband .. help!

[AmberHiker]

Hello everyone I’d really like some outside perspective because I’m literally drained from going around in circles with my husband .

He is a born Muslim. He is on and off with the level of practising but mainly sticks to the key principles of Islam but has not been praying for some years now . I am a revert. I am not a ‘ practising ‘ Muslim but I believe in Islam and what it stands for .

we have a 8 year old son and I have older kids who aren’t Muslim. For the past 11 years I’ve changed up Christmas but not given it up as for me it was never about the relegious aspect it was about the feeling , the gift giving and decorating the home plus enjoying all the foods and so on. With our son I still decorate the home and we exchange gifts a few days before Christmas. He is aware of who god is to him and to us and what we believe in.

my husband has really been giving me a hard time over recent weeks . He has stated I’m a Christian which I’m not and that I’m acting just like one . He refuses to agree that for me I’ve never linked Christmas to religion and he’s never seen me do it. He keeps going into massive tantrums pointing out I’m showing our son the wrong way . This is making me upset as I don’t feel we have much to look forward too in the uk and Christmas is a nice time of year. I enjoy the festivity and owe it to my older grown children to share with them.

when I point out that he is not doing anything that would identify him as a Muslim to me if I didn’t know him he gets offended. He is not practising not praying not fasting but is determined to take this away from me and our son. like I said if he was devout I could understand the possible problem by example having a tree in the house decorated but he isn’t and the whole thing seems so stupid .

for context he was previously married to a devout Christian who taught and showed him about Christmas ( this is where I think he has the impression it’s for relegious people ) and during their marriage Christmas a big thing in their home too, but so was bacon and alcohol. If I was to ask him was he a Muslim where he was married to her he would say yes he was yet that was allowed to happen …

sorry for the rant but all I do is share some gifts and decorate the home yet it’s a constant battle any mention of the c word and boom it’s a argument. He said I should spend the same effort showing our son about Islam but when I pointed out it’s his job as the man to lead he said he doesn’t have time to show him.. 😂

am I wrong to not give it up

It's pretty obvious that humans have naturally created something to do near the shortest day of the year in a western country that's dark?. Whatever you want to call it or attach to it it's simply humans being hopeful and bringing light to literally the darkest days.

So yes what do you do to bring light on the darkest day of the year?

Because that's all that Christmas is.

As Muslims, we shouldn't be celebrating Christmas (it is based on a religious belief which is not Islam, whether you're doing it for religious reasons or not) so I understand why your husband is saying it.

For those saying Jesus is a Prophet in Islam, indeed he is, however, we don't believe he was born on the 25th December so this doesn't have any relevance.

You should make Eid a big occasion with decorations and giving gifts.

Celebrating Christmas can lead to confusion for your son if you want him to grow up Muslim and have a good understanding of his religion, including what's a sin and what isn't. Celebrating Christmas is a sin just like drinking alcohol etc. Your husband may not practice his religion but two wrongs don't make a right.

of course you don’t have to change your religion. Especially if you were a Christian, that marriage is halal and your husband cannot prevent you from practicing your faith. Thats the Islamic rule… I’m not familiar if it permissible if the wife is Christian so I can’t comment.

but assuming it’s not permissible (like the general sentiment on Christmas) it’s irrelevant that your husband does it. Lots of Muslims do impermissible things, it doesn’t make them permissible.

you dont like the term disbeliever? How many people refer to you as that? I can’t say that I’ve ever used that term to describe a non Muslim. A Christian or Jew is a person of the book any way

Well said.

I'd hazard a guess that if you spoke to any practising Christians who truly believe, and asked them if putting up a Christmas tree and some lights and giving presents is the equivalent of 'celebrating Christmas' in a religious sense, they'd laugh their heads off.

I'm pretty sure the Bible doesn't mention adorning a potted fir tree with baubles or eating a roast turkey with all the trimmings or a magical fat man who lives at the North Pole flying across the sky with his reindeer and putting gifts inside oversized socks for small children. So I think you're fine to be honest.

That is quite the mental gymnastics to claim Christmas isn’t affiliated with Christianity. I hope you stretched first

Sorry if I missed it, but did you revert for him? Also, your non Muslim kids deserve Christmas.

To me it sounds more like he’s using Christmas to pick an argument with you, and Christmas itself is a red herring.

Has his behaviour changed in any other ways?

@Mvslimah no, not mental gymnastics, just fact.

We live in a free world to practice our religion, does that hurt your feelings? Are Muslims enforcing Eid on you or something? Are they forcing you to covert? What 'islamification' are you referring to exactly?

😂 What exactly would you know about ‘real Muslims’ I’d love to know?? Your comment tells me you know very little.

I’m not stopping anyone from doing anything, everyone has the autonomy to do what they want - I’m just giving advice to someone who is apart of my religion of what I know. My comment wasn’t meant to offend, I’m not sure why you’ve taken it offensively if you aren’t Muslim, nothing I said was meant to be derogatory to anyone else.

I find it laughable that you have made so many assumptions about me when I’ve made no comments about my personal life other than being a revert. Your comment makes it seem like you have your own preconceived notions you need to deal with, because nothing I’ve said indicates I ‘converted for a man’.

You can’t be serious. Christmas has no roots in Christianity? Despite both words containing Christ? And Christians celebrating Christmas, and it being a celebration of Jesus’s birth, celebrating a Christian saint (st nick who became Santa) giving gifts as the ‘wise men’ gave, putting a star or angel on the tree (as in the tale of the nativity) nativity plays being done in school in the run up to x mas… you’re right, it’s like utterly secular in its origin.

girl… you’re delulu, you’re too much 😅

But many/most British people's celebration of Christmas quite literally has nothing to do with Christianity and is actually much more closely linked to Nordic traditions that are completely separate to Christianity, regardless of the labelling.

For example in my household we:

Encourage a belief in a magic fat man who lives at the North Pole, rides magical flying reindeer, and clambers/shrinks/magics (this part is really vague) down the chimney on the 24th Dec in order to fill ridiculously oversized socks with gifts for children

Count down the days to 25th Dec by opening tiny doors to reveal chocolate

Bring a potted fir tree indoors and decorate it with lights and baubles

Cook and eat a roasted turkey with trimmings on 25th Dec

Exchange presents

Literally none of these things has any Biblical reference whatsoever, with the arguable exception of gift giving which could be symbolic for the nativity gifts given to the baby Jesus but I think gift giving at a time of celebration is hardly an original concept unique to Christianity.

We call it Christmas. We could also quite legitimately call it Yule and be done with the Christian association.

The religious bit is attending church services and discussing the Christian nativity story etc. If that's what the OP is doing I can sort of understand why her husband would find this unusual but otherwise his objection doesn't really bear basic scrutiny. It's fundamentally not a religious celebration in the main.

He's a control freak.

He's the man and you should do WHAT HE SAYS.

You will not hear the end of it. It is really basic misogyny.

Firstly, apologies if being called an unbeliever or non-believer is offensive to you, I meant no offence and definitely don’t view non-Muslims as lesser people - my whole family are non-Muslims and I don’t see them as lesser people. However, its extremely rich of you to comment about how people address others when your comment towards me was clearly spiteful, when mine was in no way meant to offend.

Anyways… being married to a Muslim man and living in 2 Muslim countries doesn’t qualify you to speak about ‘real Muslims’ .. and just because your ex husband and people from the Muslim countries you lived in celebrated Christmas does not mean it’s the Islamically correct thing to do.

I think you should have a list of Muslim things you expect him to give up before you give up
Xmas and see how he gets on.

How can you be a revert but not practising? During that you makes you whatever you were before culturally? As in Muslim born people are culturally Muslim whether or not they are practising, but if you were culturally Christian for example before then what makes you Muslim now if you don't practise the religion?

Unfortunately I think you are dug in and don't want to accept the earliest evolution of Christmas as I have repeatedly said because that would cause you problems

All the notable points in the year eg easter and Halloween were marked well before Christianity.

Christians stole /took /imposed or re branded this stuff to make their take over easier for the people they were taking over.

I don't know how many times it can be repeated really.

Doesn't it make any sense to you? Dark days, long winter??

Depressing, miserable? Let's cheer ourselves up?? That's what is it.
As far as I'm aware Christians don't actually know when Jesus was born but it definitely wasn't the 25th.
However they are beautiful stories, the humble baby born in a manger, three wise kings etc.
They are definitely interwoven with tradition.
I'm sure someone called jesus even lived but the rest of it the cult stuff... No.

I'm also struggling to understand why everything has to come from a belief? Or doing x because it's a belief. Because someone somewhere is telling you to do it. And why that person?

Any of us couid have been born anywhere.
Amish, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, hindu, sikh?

Do you hear what you're saying though?

Saint Nicholas became Santa? This is just a naming issue. There is nothing religious or biblical about a magic man who lives at the north pole and has flying reindeer. It's literally non biblical and downright heretical really. The father, the son, the holy ghost... And Santa? Really?! It's obvious this comes from another culture/tradition and was merely co-opted/integrated by Christianity.

Putting a star on the tree... The Tree. Oh yes that really important fundament of Christianity to celebrate and decorate trees. Again this practice very obviously doesn't originate in Christianity.

Did you know that it wasn't until the 5th century that the church agreed upon the date of Jesus' alleged birth? To coincide with the winter solstice. The 25th December itself is not Biblical and is not even a date universally celebrated by Christians.

Yes so you can make the argument it’s not a biblical celebration (much like the puritans did) and yeah I’d agree you’re right. But you can’t make the argument it isn’t a Christian celebration because it is.

regardless of what you call it, winter solstice, Yule, Christmas, it ain’t Eid so it ain’t it. So in this instance the husband’s objection dose bear basic scrutiny. Muslims are only supposed to celebrate Muslim holidays. The end.

other days of celebration like new years (bit more of a mixed bag in responses there from scholars but I’d say the majority also say that’s not great either, thanksgiving as an American is ok I think, bonfire night maybe) but anything vaguely religious is a no no.

im sorry that it seems to be so uncomfortable for many. It doesn’t mean we hate it, just that it’s not for us, it’s for you, and that’s ok.

Do you? You’re literally trying to argue that Christmas is nothing to do with Christianity and is therefore permissible for Muslims?

yes the origins of Xmas aren’t biblical but you know what neither are the hymns sang in church, it doesn’t make them any less Christian though.

And even if we argue that Christmas is not a Christian celebration, Christmas has pagan origins meaning we shouldn’t celebrate it anyway for that reason, as is the same with Halloween etc. Again, obviously some Muslims do, but Islamic rules say that we shouldn’t.

Your husband is trying to suck all the fun out yours and your kids lives, tell him to piss off.

You and your kids are your own person, the religions and cultures each individual believes, practices and adopts is their own Individual lives is their own right and only shit people try to push their beliefs on others.

Im an atheist. I still do Christmas and don’t have to justify anything to anyone as I’m braking no laws.

I've worked with Muslim men. The ones I know said that they do Christmas with presents as a family celebration, rather than a religious celebration- and they do it for their kids really, to make it a fun day

I'm sorry which scholars where??.
As far as I'm aware thousands of scholars make different interpretations of everything?
There is no one scholar with the ultimate interpretations..
. I suppose if you only view every single thing through a religious lens it will be harder to understand that religion just doesn't dominate other people's lives.

I definitely agree with other posters that this is a red herring and comes down to this man wanting control.