To refuse to give my students feedback

[WiseBlankie]

Hi all!

I'm a university teacher. Every year I teach the same course in the second semester. I'll keep it vague, but basically the students are asked to design a rudimentary study, run it and write up the results. The official deadline for their report is in June. If they miss that deadline (or fail), they have three additional chances to hand it in during the following academic year (in September, November and January).

Anyway, the final meetings of this course take the form of tutorials: the students bring their designs-in-progress to class, we discuss them and I give feedback. The students who are diligent about this usually pass without issue. Unfortunately, many students skip these sessions or show up without having done any work, usually because they've already decided to opt for one of the later deadlines and postpone the whole assignment. What happens is that I then get lots of emails around this time of year to ask if I can give them feedback on their designs. Reading their work and responding to these emails takes up a lot of time, whereas during the tutorials I often sit there twiddling my thumbs because only a handful students bother to show up, and there is no work to discuss.

Anyway, I have started replying that if they had wanted feedback on their designs, they should have showed up for tutorials and done their homework, and that they're always welcome to retake the course.

My colleague thinks I am too harsh and that students are postponing assignments because they're overwhelmed. I do get this, and am willing to make exceptions for students who have had to deal with illness or personal problems, but right now I think there's this general attitude that only their own schedule matters. I am busy too, and teaching other courses at the moment. AIBU?

Ok fair enough. Lecturers are also struggling though with increased workload and additional admin and for many the threat of redundancy.

The system at your university is madness. I thought ours was bad for letting students submit three days late without penalty (an option they can only use twice a year). They also have extra opportunities to resit if they are seriously ill or have additional needs, but that's a very small minority, one or two in a class of 50.

It is madness, but I would a) spell out that the only time for good collectively given feedback is in the initial tutorial b) if they do not submit in June, they will have to attend your office hours and get verbal feedback then.

If you are running office hours anyway, how is it a problem for you to give feedback to those students within those hours. This is what I do, I tell them to send me a copy of the essay/report/outline in advance and then spend exactly 10 min giving verbal feedback on it. This is not arduous.

Your uni is making this so much harder than it need be, mine annoys me but they are quite good at making sure most students submit on time, and there are harsh penalties (capped at 40%) if they are even 10 minutes late, without an evidenced reason and that ensures most get over the line at the right time.

Yanbu. You have them opportunities. You don’t need to pander to each individual that failed to use it.
I hated academic support. I avoided it like the plague throughout university. Mainly because once I’d done a piece of work I really didn’t want to have to re-do it. I got distinction in my degree so I did ok. But here’s the thing. I never would have requested individual feedback or support because I chose not to use the offered sessions. I just accepted that was my choice. There were times I could probably have used some help but I’d missed support so sucked it up.

I do offer additional feedback to students who haven't submitted by the main deadline because these are students who are quite ill (a cold does not count as 'evidence' in our system) or have additional learning needs. They need flexibility and more support. It can be offered in my one office hour a week.

Your system isn't clear and strict enough and so the issue of feedback throughout the year rumbles on.

I think you need to make it clear - in writing and explicitly not implicitly- that failure to hand anything in for the first deadline will be marked as a failure for the module, not just a missed deadline and that Anyone having to resit because they failed to hand anything in will not have access to support.

I think the way the “three deadlines” is worded is very confusing.

You've not addressed the point about people with disabilities potentially being marginalised in this setting OP. So I hope that's not reflective of how you work too.

Perhaps you need to adjust your approach. If you are twiddling your thumbs while being paid, why ot reduce the number of tutorial times to 20% or whatever volume of students complete now and use the 80% for written feedback or a date in the future to meet that mutually suits.

Isn't your role to get the best from your students? If I employed you I wouldn't be happy, you sound like minimum effort.

keep the feedback very limited and bullet pointed, stating that sadly having missed the tutorial you don’t have time to give more comprehensive feedback at such a late stage. Recommend they also ask for peers for further feedback.

start with the next intake, stating that feedback will be strictly in tutorials unless there are extenuating conditions like bereavement

Does having disabilities prevent students from showing up?

yes it might be better to change your approach. Give each student an official 1:1 appointment time within the tutorial. Do this in an email, also write the times/dates/names and pin to classroom wall for everyone to see. Point the information out each session

Next year I think you're going to have to spell it out as they are clearly thick. They are under the misguided belief that you personally care what grade they get.

If it does then the university will have an extenuating circumstances process.

I agree with you, I think there’s too many allowances for laziness or not attending classes today for students (I’ve just finished being a mature student and couldn’t believe the reasons people were given extensions for, aside from those who really did require them).

However I’d make it really clear that before the feedback session that if they don’t attend they won’t be getting any feedback unless they have given you valid reason before why they have not attended the session..

Why are there 3 deadlines?
Why isn't there a submission deadline and one feedback deadline?
As a teacher it is your responsibility to give feedback and if there has to be three deadlines then you need to be available to give feedback at reasonable times. Could there be 3 feedback 'windows', where you only reply within those times?

3 resit chances?! No wonder you're fed up. That's crazy.

Mine have one resit chance in late summer and if they fail that, they retake the module with attendance in the following year.

Sometimes students have mitigating circumstances so they will have a late resit but that's unusual.

If they don't hand anything in at all what are you giving feedback on?

I run training for grads at my workplace and it is a nightmare. Even when clearly told during interview stage what the expectations are on them regarding mandatory training we still have to handhold and cajole the majority to turn up - it's like pushing water uphill. So massive sympathies, but no magic bullets! I don't think the prevailing view of "well but maybe there's a good reason and you should be more accommodating" can explain the huge proportion this applies to. A small percentage might need extra support (but not enough to tell us directly in one of the many ways that can be done) but that can't be the case for most!

I think you're right in being more firm OP!

Thinking about this, check your assessment policy. It may have guidance or rules on feedback for resits. You cannot give feedback on a resit in some circumstances as this advantages those submitting late. They've been given much more time to complete the assignment than those who met the deadline.

It would possibly only apply to students who have mitigation though, as I think if people just didn't submit on the first attempt, their grade would normally be capped or something?

Try be op has said several times that students who cannot attend for health reasons are accommodated.

Unless it's a shit institution it will have policies to help with this

Exactly. I'm not sure how that poster thinks things work in humanities subjects where teaching is based around group discussion. Neurodiverse students aren't all given additional individual sessions.

I am not talking about non-attendance for health reasons. I am talking about students with disabilities who can attend but can't partake in that situation.

I think it's fine. They had plenty of chances and are adults who shouldn't need warning. Students always try to take the piss and the only way they learn that life doesn't work like that is if you say no.

You presumably work on projects for your company. The OP already had a degree. It's the student's responsibility to complete work on time, not OP's. It's completely different