To refuse to give my students feedback

[WiseBlankie]

Hi all!

I'm a university teacher. Every year I teach the same course in the second semester. I'll keep it vague, but basically the students are asked to design a rudimentary study, run it and write up the results. The official deadline for their report is in June. If they miss that deadline (or fail), they have three additional chances to hand it in during the following academic year (in September, November and January).

Anyway, the final meetings of this course take the form of tutorials: the students bring their designs-in-progress to class, we discuss them and I give feedback. The students who are diligent about this usually pass without issue. Unfortunately, many students skip these sessions or show up without having done any work, usually because they've already decided to opt for one of the later deadlines and postpone the whole assignment. What happens is that I then get lots of emails around this time of year to ask if I can give them feedback on their designs. Reading their work and responding to these emails takes up a lot of time, whereas during the tutorials I often sit there twiddling my thumbs because only a handful students bother to show up, and there is no work to discuss.

Anyway, I have started replying that if they had wanted feedback on their designs, they should have showed up for tutorials and done their homework, and that they're always welcome to retake the course.

My colleague thinks I am too harsh and that students are postponing assignments because they're overwhelmed. I do get this, and am willing to make exceptions for students who have had to deal with illness or personal problems, but right now I think there's this general attitude that only their own schedule matters. I am busy too, and teaching other courses at the moment. AIBU?

I doubt the OP gives out 4 deadlines up front. Students know they potentially have 3 further opportunities (albeit with a capped mark) and sometimes opt to take the hit. That's on them.

It's university policy. Not something I can change. There is one official deadline / exam, and students get 3 resits / resubmission opportunities. It's the same for all their courses, so they're well aware how it works.

Obviously you can’t provide feedback on nothing.
But once they do hand something in, I think they should then receive feedback.
Otherwise you’re not allowing genuine resits.

Yeah, of course I give feedback when they hand something in. They, however, want feedback before handing it in (to avoid having to rerun the study if their design turns out to be flawed and save themselves time). But that's what the tutorials are for and that's what I'm now refusing to do.

It seems like there is an issue with them understanding the importance of the deadline and procedures, then. It needs to be hammered home in email form and verbally. I think some students are too preoccupied with socialising etc to really take much of that sort of thing in. I also think three chances is too many, personally, but get that you can’t control it.

As you say, you are not a private tutor, so what does your employer say about your decision? I find your attitude a bit puzzling, I can understand working with young people is a pain in the arse sometimes, but you are being paid to deliver a service. If you feel you aren't being paid enough, take it up with your employer.

If you're in the UK refusing to give feedback is likely to be reflected in corresponding feedback /NSS scores from the students

Except the tutorials where everyone brings their designs and you discuss the designs of the loudest and most pushy students isn’t technically accessible feedback even for all the students who do show up, much less the ones who are behind schedule and aren’t marching lock step to your schedule and don’t have anything that requires feedback at that particular snapshot in time.

I really don’t understand your antipathy to individual feedback.

That is not what these tutorials are like. There are usually only a few students there - 10 max. It's not all classroom discussions either. At least half of the session just has the students working on their designs while I check in and sit down with them individually. Because I have nothing against individual feedback. I just want the students to be respectful of my time.

I really don’t understand your antipathy to individual feedback.

It's really fucking time consuming and she's already working all hours I'm guessing.

OP I think you will end up needing to give this feedback, but make sure you don't spend any more time on it than you would discussing at a tutorial.

I think you should have a conversation with the programme director. Is it a standard module or is it their dissertation? If it's a standard module I'm starting to come round to thinking teaching is over and they are on their own but that does seem a bit harsh on the ones with exceptional circumstances. The ones who are resitting presumably have detailed feedback on their first attempt, would that be useful for the resit?

Surely this is what you get paid for? And you want your students to pass?

It can’t be all the students missing the June deadline surely? That would be shocking.

If this is a final year module (or Level 7 we don't know) then it is unlikely to matter.

Sounds fine to me. I think the constant whinging about lack of feedback by my fellow students when I retrained actually meant 'not enough direct instruction on how to do the task'. I was amazed at the amount of input we all got.

I don't think the resit emergency failure rescue dates should be advertised really. Perhaps start calling them that verbally though.

It’s part of her job to give individual feedback to students. This does mean feedback when the student needs it, not when she decides is the one time only opportunity to give it.

Dealing with resits is a tiny tiny part of what she's paid for. She's busy doing the main bit of what she's paid for (teaching this semester's students) and probably neglecting the other main bit to do so (her research, which has equal weighting with teaching for most academics).

By the second semester they should be more settled. As long as you make it very clear that the sessions are available when they are and there will be no further sessions, you are fine imo.

I don't think you'll find many academics who think their schedules for providing feedback should be down to the students' whims!

A further 3 chances is insane as university policy in my opinion!!! Completely removes the incentive to put the work initially. Importantly is there a mechanism for you to feed this back to the powers that be to maybe instigate some change? Pretty standard to have one resubmission on a fail (+one in exceptional/extenuating circumstances), worth moving into line. Do they have formative assessments? This may be an alternative way of approaching it.

In terms of your stance I would refer back to the university regs firstly so your not practicing outside of these. Assuming you are then I think it's perfectly reasonable to set some boundaries at the begining of the course e.g if you don't attend feedback sessions then I will only offer you x/y/z or I can only look over 250 words etc. and be clear for those with life stuff/other stuff to consider that you can adjust this process as reasonably needed but there will be structure to it. Also making use of signposting where you can to say library services.

Studying isn't just about the subject, it's about learning to work to deadline, being efficient, finding out how you work best, self motivation etc, basically doing what you want on your terms doesnt preoare anyone for the real world, I feel yohr boundaries are appropriate withing rhe above.

Like most professors, my students ask for an appointment during my advertised regular in-office hours.

The idea that all students will be ready for feedback and only need feedback exactly x weeks before the official deadline is pure naïveté and fundamentally unfair.

The group setting is also discriminatory to certain disabilities.

It's about workload rather than money really. There is a set number of hours for every task and every course that we teach (decided by the university administration), and based on that all teaching and admin tasks are assigned each year. The scheduled tutorials are all the hours I get for this course. Anything I do extra is my own time.

Ok I've read all your posts but not the replies.

Sorry if I've missed something.

in my opinion, you'd be far better to state XYZ not imply it. A lot of uni students are slower than 5 year olds. Spoon feed them the requirements, what you need from them & what help you're prepared to offer them & when. Be clear 'if you don't attend the tutorials I will not be giving feedback outside of those times. I'm your university lecturer/tutor NOT your private tutor. I'm happy to help those if you helping yourself, but I'm not prepared to to give up my free time for students not helping themselves & not turning up to the tutorials. Blah blah

Tutorials are five, four, three, two and one week before the deadline. Students can attend all five sessions for their group, or none, or however many they want.

So it's ok with the university if you just say to the students tough shit guys, I'm not getting paid for this, you've failed.

Is that how you see this working? That'll show 'em eh? I don't see what you think you have to gain from this. If things go wrong in my job because other people fuck up, I have to help sort it out. I have to find a way forward, I can't just throw my hands up and say not my fault.

I don't run office hours over the summer for resits though, do you? I don't think any of my colleagues do either.

I have manageable class sizes and mostly use exams for assessment so I'm happy to answer queries by email but what OP is describing is more time consuming.

Anyway I don't see the difference between providing feedback during scheduled office hours or a scheduled tutorial as I suggested OP runs for these students. Very different to emails, both in terms of scheduling for OP and in the time she'll end up spending on it.

If the tutorials often result in you twiddling your thumbs could you take some time out then/reschedule to give feedback now? I know this may be down to students poor organisation but you wouldn't have to work unpaid, in your own time, if some of your coursework hours were allocated to the later deadlines.