We need to start asking why.

[NotOneOfTheInCrowd]

So trump has won. In the UK elections reform gained good ground. In the rest of Europe the far right are gaining ground.

It’s clear that the world as a whole is leaning further towards this stance, and instead of expressing horror and insulting those who are voting that way, we need to start asking why that is. Because clearly it is.

it’s easy to say that people voted for Farage because they didn’t want to vote Tory.

Or that they voted for Trump because they didn’t want a woman.

But it has to go further than that. There are too many of these votes for it to be that simplistic. so it’s time we looked at what the realities and the reasons are, and how they can be resolved without putting it in the hands of people like Farage or Trump to resolve them.

Propaganda. Misinformation. Much of the media being owned by right wing billionaires.

Could you have at least put Trump in the title so we would know to avoid YET another thread on this?

People of all colours, creeds and demographics voted for Donald Trump. They considered him to be the best candidate. Got more of the popular vote than in 2016. Considerably more valid mandate Starmer.

This.

Money

People are really struggling and the politicians don't care. They're busy focusing on things that don't matter to the every day person

This labour budget almost winded me with how fair it was to the poor tbh, as I was expecting worse

We need more council housing, more nhs support with a drastic reduction in wait times, cheaper food and a rent freeze for the private sector

We won't get any of those things

So I think we will be living in instability for a long while

I don't think there is any failure to look at those reasons. Broadly, they are:
--the disinformation effects of social media
--the economic effects of the death of industry in western countries, leaving them unable to maintain an adequate standard of welfare and public services
--necrotic western political institutions
--the crippling international effects of war and climate change, contributing to large-scale population movements

All of these are widely discussed, but there seems to be no capacity to act, possibly due to no. 3

Its a good question

I think it might actually be stupidity, mixed with a 'follow the crowd' mentality and refusing to fact check.

All Trump followers I've seen (not many! But I get them pop up on my Insta feed from time to time) don't actually have any arguments. It's all 'make America great again!' And 'freedom!!!' ~ combined with a concerning number of comments agreeing or quoting things Trump has said that are just blatantly untrue. I've read threads on here and articles on new-sites and I still don't quite understand what he's arguing for.

I'd like to say there's no way over 50% of US voters have this mentality, but look at everyone who came out for the riots this summer in the UK and the behaviour we saw there. I don't think the world is as progressive as we like to think.

Deregulation, the economy, neo liberalism, globalisation, lack of free press, misinformation and social media.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory

Well here's one academic theory about history appears to repeat itself, which has supporters and naysayers, but I find it an interesting "bigger picture" hypothesis. Emphasis on the hypothesis because at this stage in the game, much as we look to experts and science for all the answers, I think that's more a reflection of our innate need for some sort of certainty in apparently unstable times, and if course latching onto anything and saying "this is IT" and building around it often has dire unintended consequences.

Broadly speaking, I think part of the driving force behind it all is the sheer speed of progress over the last century, the relentless implementation of new technology without full understanding of its impacts beyond alleged benefits to the economy, and that while yes, we can, and have to adapt, we now do it with a much more pliable ethical and moral framework, which again, has positive and negative aspects.

Of course it fosters division in an unprecedented way - the connection and community fostered by the Internet and having platforms to disseminate any cause or theory has the paradoxical effect of creating more and more splintering within groups with a similar base line and yep "the devil us in the detail".

It is fascinating if one observes with a bit if detachment.

But the real bottom line as a PP said is money / power. That underpins it all.

This isn’t just about Trump though. It’s about the world as a whole. Trump is just one in a long line of countries where the far right are gaining ground.

And we need to look at why beyond just “it’s the media/social media/people are thick” to stop that progression.

Reform gained a lot more ground in the last election, and unless something radically changes they will gain more in the next one.

Keir Starmer is the most unpopular prime minister in history, and regardless of the thinking behind that, if something doesn’t change he absolutely won’t get in next term, and if the tories don’t, then reform stand a real chance.

We have to look beyond the insults, because there are reasons, and without addressing those reasons, we are powerless.

Keir Starmer is the most unpopular prime minister in history

Liz Truss says hold my Chardonnay. You have a memory as short as her tenure.

I agree with you

This was a more polite version of what I was going to say which was -

People are generally thick and will believe any old shit that gets fed to them

The world has changed so much in the past 20-30 years. The way we communicate has completely changed, the way we consume news has changed, social norms have changed. Things have changed incredibly - unprecedentedly - quickly and I think this has left many people grappling for ‘the good old days’.

It’s no coincidence that both Trump’s campaign and Brexit sloganeering relied heavily on nostalgic, emotive words - ‘Make America Great Again’ or Let’s get our country back’ and the data shows that the older you are (therefore more conscious of how much things have changed), the more likely you are to vote this way.

I don’t think it’s even a conscious thing necessarily, but people are drawn to those who promise to either take them back to a time that made more sense or protect the few aspects of society they still recognise.

It’s a deeply complex thing but given the speed at which the world has changed, it’s not a surprise that people like Trump are thriving politically.

People see society going too far left and there is always an effort to balance things which unfortunately swings too much the other way. Government refuse to listen to common people and treat them with disdain eg on the transgender issues, faith teaching totally forbidden in schools, mass immigration with no checks etc. People get fed up of no one listening so it becomes a reaction.
Also ordinary families are struggling big time financially but politicians waste money and are out of touch.
I am in lreland so not my president but l see tiny rumblings here too as politicians waste money on nonsense and are also not listening.

It's important to ask the question instead of calling people stupid , illiterate or too controlled by media. People are not happy .

Any "charismatic" leader (which I personally find difficult to apply to Trump, but there we are) who offers a struggling electorate solutions to their poverty/disenfranchisement will have the whip hand.

Desperate people aren't looking for the potentially unpleasant hidden agendas that might only become apparent when you've bought in hook, line and sinker. By which time, psychologically it's very difficult to step away, and admit you were fooled, or the regime you welcomed in has the things you hold dear being held at metaphorical gunpoint. The things you might compromise on or minimise to justify your survival often are rationalised for a perceived "greater good".

Humans, eh? We're a funny bunch.. ..

Trump promised he would solve everything, wars, unemployment, pay, fuel prices, immigration, crime, corruption, inflation, unfair competition from abroad, etc, etc. If you believed half of it you would vote for him. And it was a huge risk a woman running against him, the US is very conservative (with a small c).

For the rest it tends to swing one way and then over correct the other way politically. Nationalism is easy to stir up in many countries currently, with poor economic conditions and immigrants to be easily blamed for all problems.

But the problem here is that two of the examples you give are blatantly incorrect. I don't know about Ireland, but faith teaching is certainly not banned in schools here. And nowhere is mass immigration completely uncontrolled. "Transgender issues" is a tricky one because I don't know exactly what is upsetting you about this.

I would be interested where you're getting these ideas from? Because it would seem that "too controlled by (certain) media" might be exactly your problem.

I think a large part of the problem is the propensity of many on the left to think that all they need to do to change the way others see the world and feel about current events is to tell them they are wrong/bigoted/stupid. Concerned about unlimited immigration putting more and more pressure on desperately overstretched public services and housing? You’re a bigot. Worried that allowing biological men access to women’s spaces might decrease women’s safety? Still a bigot. It doesn’t help that many of those doing the proselytizing are well off and largely unaffected by the problems they are dismissing as either fabricated or inconsequential.

The right is responding to those concerns and making people feel heard. Whether they will actually change anything if they get into power is another matter, but you can’t really blame people for voting for people/parties that seem to be listening to them when they not only feel dismissed by the alternative, but also judged by people who appear to have no grasp of the reality many people are facing.

People want change. Living conditions have deteriorated rapidly since 2020, the war in Ukraine shows no end in sight, and everywhere we look it’s all doom and gloom. People voted Labour because they wanted change. And unfortunately Trump was the face of change in America.

Im not reform voter and I was extremely saddened to see Trump voted in again. But it’s not hard to see why.

Politics generally at the moment is horrible. While I think it’s perfectly fair to accuse the right of offering simplistic, populist ideas to complex problems, I also think the progressive left needs to take its share of the blame for our current situation as well, arrogantly telling people they’re unspeakably dreadful for even considering that some things are problems was never going to win anyone over, quite the opposite. Both sides happily and unquestioningly absorb complete bullshit and take it as gospel.
And here we are.

Because many people who would say they are left wing:
Talk down to others.
Insist that their view is the only correct view.
Secretly despise working class people.
Don't understand what the ordinary person worries about.
Is totally concerned with identity politics,to the detriment of ordinary people.
Is unwilling to listen to ordinary people
I'm thinking, in particular, of the Gordon Brown, 'bigoted woman' incident. Instead of listening and engaging, he decided she was a bigot. And probably lost her vote.
I'm not saying that more right wing politicians are OK, BTW. But if people are ignored they vote for the person who appears to listen.

I think this sums it up well.

With the shift from class politics to identity politics that the left has taken, there's also a different class divide these days between left and right. The left no longer champion the working class. They are mostly middle class elites who look down their nose at working class folk. The left has become out of touch with the lives of most ordinary people. And I say this as someone with centre left politics, I'm nowhere near right wing.

I dislike the tendency of the "progressive" left to be intolerant and look to cancel people whose views they don't like. I worked in the NHS during the dark days of the Tavistock and Mermaids being the beacons of best practice in gender medicine, although it wasn't specifically my area. Many of us knew it wasn't right, but if you wanted to keep your job, and your registration, you kept schtum.

Because the world is becoming a very angry little place?