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We need to start asking why.

231 replies

NotOneOfTheInCrowd · 06/11/2024 11:49

So trump has won. In the UK elections reform gained good ground. In the rest of Europe the far right are gaining ground.

It’s clear that the world as a whole is leaning further towards this stance, and instead of expressing horror and insulting those who are voting that way, we need to start asking why that is. Because clearly it is.

it’s easy to say that people voted for Farage because they didn’t want to vote Tory.

Or that they voted for Trump because they didn’t want a woman.

But it has to go further than that. There are too many of these votes for it to be that simplistic. so it’s time we looked at what the realities and the reasons are, and how they can be resolved without putting it in the hands of people like Farage or Trump to resolve them.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 08/11/2024 17:52

Tryonemoretime · 08/11/2024 17:15

Thing is, many now realise that our country can't allow everyone in who wants to come. We just don't have the room or the infrastructure for an uncontrolled number of immigrants. Boat people and those who try to come in illegally should be deported immediately. Legal immigration should be only for people who can fill job vacancies. We need to look at how Australia manages immigration and learn from them. One thing is certain - we can't keep an 'open door to all' policy. It's just not sustainable.

They use a deterrent and push back. It works but we seem to struggle with policy and electorate. It's bipartisan there but here we seem to favour high numbers and deaths

username7891 · 08/11/2024 21:38

Tryonemoretime · 08/11/2024 17:15

Thing is, many now realise that our country can't allow everyone in who wants to come. We just don't have the room or the infrastructure for an uncontrolled number of immigrants. Boat people and those who try to come in illegally should be deported immediately. Legal immigration should be only for people who can fill job vacancies. We need to look at how Australia manages immigration and learn from them. One thing is certain - we can't keep an 'open door to all' policy. It's just not sustainable.

Yadda Yadda Yadda.

What seems to be sustainable is obsessing about 'illegal immigrants', making ridiculous statements such as deport them and ignoring why we've ended up in the state we have.

SallyWD · 08/11/2024 22:18

Trumptonagain · 08/11/2024 17:30

We need to look at how Australia manages immigration and learn from them.

We need to also look at why they bypass other safe countries on route inorder to get to the UK.

Only 5 to 15% of asylum seekers who come to Europe try to get to the UK. Other countries take higher numbers than us.
It's a myth that the majority of refugees try to come here.

SallyWD · 08/11/2024 22:20

TexaSun · 08/11/2024 12:03

TL;DR - Racism at the heart of the rise of the far right; corporations extracting wealth from every economy with no scrutiny, making us all poorer.

Politicians like Trump and Farage prey on people who feel they have been left behind and forgotten. Similar politicians all over Europe, some in power, some in opposition - Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Greece etc.

It's not a new phenomenon, but it's exacerbated and brought to the fore due to social media and globalisation.

Sticking with Trump and Farage - far right politics focus on slogans they feel disillusioned people will attach to, and it's mainly around immigration and race, see they took our jobs, illegal immigrants cost xyz, causing NHS backlogs, they're a danger to society.

It's all horse sh*t to be blunt, and exposes the people who buy into it as fundamentally racist...although they may say "I'm not racist, my son's football coach is Muslim" or some other nonsense to defend their beliefs.

Having one or two acquaintances that aren't white doesn't mean you're not racist.

I believe racism is fundamentally the main reason people buy into these right wing arguments. Brexit was the early days of serious change in Britain, and it's (as expected) turned into a sh*t show that has done nothing but make people poorer, line the pockets of the already rich, make a perfectly working border and import/export system impossible and complex with additional costs, increased the inadequacy of the NHS...the list goes on.

Whether obvious or thinly veiled, there is a sense of old school imperialism in a lot of people in the UK, hence the Brexit vote and what we see now. We ceased being a superpower long ago, the empire thankfully collapsed, but there are still ramifications to this day...and that mentality is still part of a lot of people, most of whom were never around back in those days i.e. before Indian independence in 1947.

Starmer and the Labour party have a mountain to climb because the country has been bled dry by corporations, aided by the Tory's and big money lobbyists. For example, it's an absolute scandal you have to pay some of the highest charges in Europe for water in England and Wales - add to that the fact these companies have only extracted wealth and barely invested in infrastructure - allowed to run amok during the last 15 years of the Tories.

This is happening in other sectors - de-regulation allows companies to extract as much wealth from the economy (our pockets in the end) with very little to show as a final product.

Therein lies the problem - centrist or left of centre politicians find it too difficult to change the status quo given the power behind these corporations = little changes, people are dissollusioned and the cycle continues.

Edited

Excellent post

Dogsbreath7 · 09/11/2024 08:23

The more extreme the left wing becomes the more those who would prefer the middle centre swing to counterbalance.

Pinkchicken75 · 10/11/2024 10:29

since 2008 banking disaster things have just got worse ,no politician in power seems to get a grip with immigration & i don't just mean the boats. The electric companies taking the pi** ,water companies doing the same. Rules like child benefit which are of no sense. Rent is ridiculous. The list goes on, people have had enough.

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