We need to start asking why.

[NotOneOfTheInCrowd]

So trump has won. In the UK elections reform gained good ground. In the rest of Europe the far right are gaining ground.

It’s clear that the world as a whole is leaning further towards this stance, and instead of expressing horror and insulting those who are voting that way, we need to start asking why that is. Because clearly it is.

it’s easy to say that people voted for Farage because they didn’t want to vote Tory.

Or that they voted for Trump because they didn’t want a woman.

But it has to go further than that. There are too many of these votes for it to be that simplistic. so it’s time we looked at what the realities and the reasons are, and how they can be resolved without putting it in the hands of people like Farage or Trump to resolve them.

Most Trump voters aren't voting for anything. You need to look at what they're against - which is the strangehold of 'woke' policies that dominate the mainstream media, education and public services, together with lax immigration policies. Is Donald Trump the answer? No. But he is the alternative. Which is all that's required to defeat whatever Kamala Harris stood for.

It's the same strand of liberal groupthink that's infected our own public sector,
which is why the NHS can no longer use the words 'woman' and 'mother' - and why women are slowly being erased from view.

Fetch the electron microscope! I need to play the world's smallest violin for the poor oppressed second home owners! 😆

Resource guarding. Times are tough for a lot of people and they are worried that there isn't enough to go around.

Because it's a normal pattern throughout history. It'll pass in a few years once we've had a war.

Not at all, but the way misinformation and lies spread like wildfire globally and become truths is quite frankly terrifying. The way AI is being used to influence and divide populations was never possible before. We are
living in a post truth world. The truth in 2024 is just whatever someone says it is, irrespective of any evidence. It’s all very sad and I wish there was an answer.

I’ll be absolutely solidly honest with you about immigration and why I don’t like it. I might get banned.

the people who arrive here from Afghanistan, or other Islamic countries, do not suddenly adopt our values and culture, the fair treatment of women, the tolerance for other religions the second their foot rests upon the shingle in Hastings beach.

culture, is all my country is. It’s not skin colour, it’s culture. The windrush generation was culturally Christian, like the UK is. They integrated quickly and well. The more recent wave of immigrants are not that. They are intolerant, misogynistic people I do not want to share a country with.

the next UK election will be won on immigration and anti woke values and Kemi and Nigel, will make a deal and win it together. And I’ll vote for them.

@MidnightMeltdown Most working class people hate champagne socialists.

Actually, that's who they're told they should be hating. The term champagne socialist should be a badge of honour because it means that you're prepared to vote against your own interests for the greater good. It's why it's been weaponised by the right because 'champagne socialists' show them up for the selfish jerks they are.

The working classes should be directing all their ire towards liberals, because they really are arseholes. Right wing fiscally but socially liberal, they're the reason both the UK and the US are in the shit they're in. Champagne socialists are far more likely to be left wing fiscally and more socially conservative.

I'm loving all the celeb left wing liberals apoplectic & frothing today, even that awful Jameela Jamie weighed in and she's from Bristol no less

Because we are too far from a major war.

Those that fought in WW2 are gone. We don't have the experience of the horrors of fascism in living memory.

We will continue down this path until there is major bloodshed and we see our children die and then we will swing back towards more liberalism and tolerance.

Putin's expansionist ideals have not gone anywhere. He is already lining up Moldove to be the next Belarus via election interference. His interference on separating the UK from Europe proved very effective.

Trump's election win brings us a giant step closer towards war in Europe.

That's the kind of attitude that's problematic though. You've made assumptions that 2nd home owners are some sort of exploitative multimillionaires.

Again, not me impacted by this. But there was a thread on here from a woman who lived in a flat with her toddler, her mother and her sister. The woman is in the process of buying a house for her and her toddler. It seems as though she was keeping her name on the flat as her mother and sister couldn't afford to live anywhere else so they were staying there. She didn't know how to afford/what to do about the stamp duty increase. She put a thread on here as she was considering asking the seller to help. You must be able to see that people like this poster are not rolling in cash or keeping empty homes or whatever the 2nd home owner crime is imagined to be.

It's not enough to ask why.

There is a need to listen and understand.

Too often the left just get angry at the opposition and write them and their voters off as being

Stupid
Racist, sexism etc
Uneducated
Deluded by propaganda

Most are none of these things.

But as long as that's what the left believes and as long as they just get angry at people who have a different point of view then

Trump
Farage
Boris
Brexit

Will continue to triumph

At a very basic level, Harris wasn’t chosen to run but placed there after pushing Biden out. The Dems then forgot about half of America as they’ve formed into the party of the Hollywood elite while leaving regular working people behind.

If anyone actually paid attention to Trump’s messaging beyond the usual rhetoric, he very clearly appealed to working class America as much as he did the elites. The man straddled the line just right.

Oh. and also, Harris is an ethnic minority and a woman, it was never going to happen for her. It’s as if the Dems don’t understand the US - which is beyond obvious now.

If Trump does a half-decent job, Vance will be able to win the presidency with ease. Expect 8-years of Republican rule.

@Bookgrrrl @CrazyGoatLady You've both pretty much summed up well what I was thinking.

I watched a bit of the run up on TV last night before the polls closed and on a couple of channels they were saying what voters had said matters most to them, top of the list was ‘democracy’ I find that interesting as I wonder if it actually means people need/want to be heard and are sick of there seemingly being no room for different views/opinions, or if it means something else.

I've found the thread about the 2nd home purchase.

What would you do? New Stamp Duty Rules | Mumsnet

It really is problematic that instead of looking at issues that are causing real people real problems, that you immediately start on about tiny violins. This thread is titled "We need to start asking why". I tried to explain some of the why from my perspective. And you said tiny violins. You aren't listening - you immediately dismissed based on the phrase 2nd home. The left aren't listening either. That's the problem.

I tend to agree. I live somewhere with a lot of ignorant people, it's incredibly draining.

Interestingly 40% of the responses on this very thread are making the same tired accusations

Billionaire foreigners owning media outlets have an amplified voice. The Americans now have an 80 year old man with mental decline as a puppet president operated by Musk and Theil who aren’t permitted to be present themselves. The Grifter in Chief was the perfect mark for them.

Theil has bought a bunker in New Zealand to prepare for the war he and his buddies are expecting. All voters were warned.

Throughout history we have seen what happens when a small group of people become obscenely rich compared to the general populace. It never ends well. But the comfort is that it’s usually them that loses and things are brought back to a more level playing field. The time will come when people will realise the Haitian guy is not the reason they no longer have employment rights, can’t get dental and health care, their daughter was raped and has to keep the baby and the big company that spilled oil into their local water tanks can’t be made to fix it because they were deregulated.

It's not rocket science. Most people aren't far right, most people DO though have conservative values at heart (family, freedom from over bearing/interfering governance, the opportunity to prosper).

Discussion has become very polarised, and having conservative values is considered by many in the (sizeable) minority as something to be ashamed of; those people consider it their right to openly shame people for their values. So people do their talking at the ballot box.

Because he played to their misogyny, bigotry, racism and lack of education.

Yes. You will see the same in any thread about Brexit or the Tories or Farage.

as long as the opposition are written off as stupid and no attempt made to understand then the left will never learn.

and I say this as someone of the left.

You filled my bingo card. Do I win a prize?

I’d start by abandoning the concepts of left and right. And centre.

does socially conservative plus fiscally progressive equal centrist? What about socially liberal and fiscally conservative is that also centrist?
and dozens of different combinations and shades. Right/ left/ centre are so broad as to be meaningless; all they accomplish is to promote tribalism

@crackofdoom

So migrants are not housed in hotels while their Asylum cases are being processed? They are not given basic allowances to live on? Who is paying for that? Us?

Two tier policing is a FACT! I have family members who work for the justice system and the police and ALL acknowledge that different groups of people get treated very differently because they are so scared of being accused of racism!

Our infrastructure worked just fine until we started getting a massive influx of people. Why should we be paying for more when we didn't ask for this huge increase in our population?

Stop using statistics to try and justify it and spend some time in the communities/jobs that deal with this every single day! You may just change your views.

I am in just the same place and I wholeheartedly agree.

Maybe there are some clues in the replies on this thread. There’s been a growing band of very superior ‘I know everything’ people, usually on the left of politics, who try hard to dictate to others what they should and shouldn’t think, and get very angry if they don’t. It used to work, to a point, but people are now educating themselves on politics, and realising that not everything’s black and white. For example, the lefty comments on here are accusing misinformation by right supporting media outlets and people of contributing to the current situation you’ve outlined OP. But without acknowledging that misinformation is a two way street, and happens on the left too. It’s always (every single time) that the personal derogatory comments come from those on the left of politics. I didn’t want Starmer in, but on Election Day, I shrugged my shoulders, sucked it up, got on with my day. I didn’t resort to calling everyone who supported him as dumbarses (might have thought it, but didn’t go on social media to vocalise it).