We need to start asking why.

[NotOneOfTheInCrowd]

So trump has won. In the UK elections reform gained good ground. In the rest of Europe the far right are gaining ground.

It’s clear that the world as a whole is leaning further towards this stance, and instead of expressing horror and insulting those who are voting that way, we need to start asking why that is. Because clearly it is.

it’s easy to say that people voted for Farage because they didn’t want to vote Tory.

Or that they voted for Trump because they didn’t want a woman.

But it has to go further than that. There are too many of these votes for it to be that simplistic. so it’s time we looked at what the realities and the reasons are, and how they can be resolved without putting it in the hands of people like Farage or Trump to resolve them.

Don't underestimate the power of rich individuals and companies lobbying for their own interests. It's very obvious in the USA but it's there under the surface too in the UK (just remember all the COVID contracts).

Trump's last administration was brazenly corrupt with this - he appointed people to head agencies and departments who had openly stated opposition to the function of the agency they were given to run.

And god knows what Elon wanted but I'm be interested to know what Trump promised him in return for the billions donated to the campaign and the takeover of the Twitter platform used to promote Trump. I'm sure we won't have long to wait to find out what his reward is going to be.

Whatever it is, it's not going to be something designed to benefit the average American.

This 💯

Exactly. Anything said about immigration numbers and one is immediately called 'racist' or 'far right'. It makes many of us afraid to say anything.....

Trump was joined on the campaign trail by Alexis Nungaray, a mother whose young daughter was raped and murdered by illegal immigrant gang members. This is from his final rally - trigger alert:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ezh7hk_hJIk

Obviously he’s making political capital of her grief but also, he’s right to when there’s a real problem at the border that the Democrats don’t care about.

It’s a pity that politicians from the major parties have never dared address directly the terrible attacks that have happened here in the UK. Farage was told he couldn’t even raise Southport in parliament.

First error on your part OP - just because people vote right of centre, does not make them far right.
Second error is that you assume voters have little intelligence.
Third error is that you expect all voters to groupthink as you do and when they don’t you’re puzzled. Maybe it’s your lack of understanding and appreciation of a different point of view that’s causing you to be confused.

Personally, my family in the USA all voted Trump, and they are 2 Doctors, 3 Nurse Practioners, 1 Accountant, 1 manufacturing director, 3 Biochemist Engineers. Basically the educated classes you would assume would vote Democrat, but they voted for Trump.

Why? As a former POTUS once said “it’s the economy stupid”.

Perfectly said

I live in the USA (Irish originally).
Was gutted that Kamala lost, but I have spent the last few days reflecting.

Her and Bidens management of the border was disgraceful. It doesnt matter what is "right or wrong". The fact is that 95% of Americans want a secure border. Therefore - they need to be given that.

LGBTQ issues. Rubbish. Needs to be left to one side. Focus on what people care about. The border and the economy.

Too Woke. Americans are tired of it. Sick to the back teeth of being told what to say or do.

So now we have Trump. ugggh.

I’ve volunteered for a political party for nearly ten years and have also been employed within politics briefly. I have spoken to literally thousands of voters. These are my thoughts;
Most people are not engaged in politics and many vote on a whim with zero research and can be swayed easily. Many don’t even bother voting at all. This is why canvassers keep knocking until 9.50pm during elections!
Many are who are interested get very angry or upset when they don’t get the result they wanted but the majority don’t do anything about it.
Activists are not given a special pass or remit to volunteer our time, we also feel angry but appreciate that’s not enough. We all have a collective responsibility to step forward and improve this world, if not for us then for our kids and those we leave behind. Bluntly it’s not good enough just to be shocked/upset/angry. Time to step up and do your bit as part of the human race. There’s plenty to do but seriously just get involved, be reactive not passive or don’t be surprised when stuff like this happens. I have never known such apathy towards politics and this allows narcissists and fascists to flourish. Even an hour or two a week will help massively. Those of us who have stepped forward time and time again are tired!

I agree op

the world is changing as it always is and the progressive left need to be listening to those they claim to support not just listen to what they want to hear

It isn't that simple by any means. However, the assumption that people have legitimate, rational reasons for voting as they do is fallacious. When people are scared, they turn to a strongman daddy figure to protect them, not understanding that he is actually preying on their fears and would cut their throats if they got in his way. I suspect that a lot of people who don't have a lot of experience with the US or Americans don't quite understand that the unfortunate truth about Americans is that as a people they are exceptionally fearful, and a lot of it is xenophobic and bigoted in nature. All a politician has to do is stoke existing fears about immigrants and the opposition being "the enemy of the people," and "vermin," which is exactly what Trump did and what all right wing movements do. They demonize certain groups to increase existing fear. Fear motivates voters more than anything else.

The US is also a deeply religious country, with right wing Christian fundamentalism holding a lot of people captive to their dishonest and irrational dogma. So pandering to that is always very successful, even if the politician is by no means Christian in his behaviour and obviously not a believer. As long as he reassures them that he will do their bidding in regards to the social issues they obsess over, like abortion, gay marriage, etcetera, he has a lock on their vote.
Evangelical Christianity is the single most poisonous influence on American politics and has been for a long time. Evangelicals always vote Republican, no matter who is the candidate, and there a hell of a lot of them, especially in the south and midwest.

Also, the the Democrats certainly didn't help themselves by caving to crazy wokeism and abandoning economic equality as a goal. They lost much of the working class which has previously been their base by doing that.

Do you realise how you come across?
‘ignorant people’, ‘incredibly draining’
Are these so called ignorant people those who possess a different point of view and possibly living circumstance to you? If it’s so incredibly draining perhaps don’t tax yourself with what is meant to be a discussion forum.
Democracy isn’t just when everyone agrees with your tunnel vision ideals.

This. Plus these parties gaining ground are leaning into what people are feeling and reenforcing existing prejudice not trying to explain to people that what they are feeling is wrong. It is the Goebbels school of propaganda and it unfortunately works. If more left or even centrist parties don't wake up to this and change their approach they are done for.

Actually I would be interested in who you think I voted for.
I'll tell you, shall I?
Since 1974, the February election ,I have always voted Labour. And I see exactly what I have said being played out by activists. I'm working class, from a very poor background. And I'm fed up with middle class people, who have no idea about the hardships of my life telling me what is good for me. I know what would make my life better. I'm not stupid, I was fortunate enough to get to university when very few went. I've done responsible jobs where I had to think.
I don't need to be patronised by the middle classes or told what to think.

I hate this societal sneering at Conservative voters (and I'm not one). It makes me want to vote Tory just to spite them, and also date rabid socialists and explain how many of their views are ultra-conservative and not socialist in the slightest.

I actually considered not voting or spoiling the ballot paper in the last election. I did vote, but I really wasn't happy.

It is usually to do with life dissatisfactions and people who are discontented falling for the rhetoric of megalomaniacs as a way out. This is exactly what happened with Hitler. Germans were dissatisfied with their position after the first WW and fell for the simplistic solutions offered by a mad man.

The fact that so many people in poverty in the US voted for Trump means that they think he will sort their problems out - hmmmm. Simplistic solutions are appealing - not real of course - but are exploited by power-crazed men. Serious and reflective long term thinkers lack people appeal, but are what is needed.

It is worrying that the US political system allows a person to stand for president, who is:

• a convicted criminal
• incited an anti-democratic riot that resulted in deaths
• shows clear symptoms of psychosis

Surely there must be some conditions attached to a candidacy, or can anyone stand?

Actually many people were not even aware that Biden had dropped out and that Harris was now the candidate for the democrats. It gets even better. Jimmy Kimmel had people interviewed on the street asking if they were going to vote on Wednesday. These people were not aware that the elections were already over and that Trump had won.

So they do not think Trump is the best candidate, they are simply not aware of what is going on in their own country from day to day and who these people are. Well, most will have heard of the name Trump, because for decades he has plastered his name and his face on everything. But I doubt many of his voters are aware of the shit he has been up to, or that he has been convicted several times over, or that he caused an insurrection, or that he has been impeached twice.

They just don't know, so they don't know who to vote for either. They don't even know what day to vote.

Ooh look what?

The right kept saying migrantion caused a number of huge problems but continually voted for a party that not only increased all forms of migration year on year, but cut funding to the public services and infrastructure needed to deal with issues like population increase, integration, border control, crime, etc., etc.

If that's not being the architect of your own problems I don't know what is.

But I'd really love to know what it is that the right genuinely want to happen here. Most of the talk is about stopping the boats, but doing that would only reduce net migration by a few %, so that's clearly not going to satisfy the right.

Even if you managed to achieve net zero migration overall, all the people already here would still be here, and all the new people coming in would be foreigners, so I'm not sure that would satisfy them either.

So what would be the ideal solution? To start forcefully deporting migrants already here? To restrict who's allowed to enter to certain religious or cultural backgrounds? To completely ban all migration until the population declines?

The stupidity and ignorance of people is utterly astounding these days. These gullible people will be the end of us all. You hear them everywhere you go.
Everything they say and do is just brainless. They haven't got the ability to dissect things and think for themselves.

Your last paragraph - yes that's exactly what some people are calling for. I see it all over social media. I strongly disagree but this is what many people want. Trump's forced deportations will only make them think it's possible and all we need is a "strong leader" to implement it.

Yeap. That.

politics reflects what the capitalism system need and the quickest way to get the masses on board.

TL;DR - Racism at the heart of the rise of the far right; corporations extracting wealth from every economy with no scrutiny, making us all poorer.

Politicians like Trump and Farage prey on people who feel they have been left behind and forgotten. Similar politicians all over Europe, some in power, some in opposition - Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Greece etc.

It's not a new phenomenon, but it's exacerbated and brought to the fore due to social media and globalisation.

Sticking with Trump and Farage - far right politics focus on slogans they feel disillusioned people will attach to, and it's mainly around immigration and race, see they took our jobs, illegal immigrants cost xyz, causing NHS backlogs, they're a danger to society.

It's all horse sh*t to be blunt, and exposes the people who buy into it as fundamentally racist...although they may say "I'm not racist, my son's football coach is Muslim" or some other nonsense to defend their beliefs.

Having one or two acquaintances that aren't white doesn't mean you're not racist.

I believe racism is fundamentally the main reason people buy into these right wing arguments. Brexit was the early days of serious change in Britain, and it's (as expected) turned into a sh*t show that has done nothing but make people poorer, line the pockets of the already rich, make a perfectly working border and import/export system impossible and complex with additional costs, increased the inadequacy of the NHS...the list goes on.

Whether obvious or thinly veiled, there is a sense of old school imperialism in a lot of people in the UK, hence the Brexit vote and what we see now. We ceased being a superpower long ago, the empire thankfully collapsed, but there are still ramifications to this day...and that mentality is still part of a lot of people, most of whom were never around back in those days i.e. before Indian independence in 1947.

Starmer and the Labour party have a mountain to climb because the country has been bled dry by corporations, aided by the Tory's and big money lobbyists. For example, it's an absolute scandal you have to pay some of the highest charges in Europe for water in England and Wales - add to that the fact these companies have only extracted wealth and barely invested in infrastructure - allowed to run amok during the last 15 years of the Tories.

This is happening in other sectors - de-regulation allows companies to extract as much wealth from the economy (our pockets in the end) with very little to show as a final product.

Therein lies the problem - centrist or left of centre politicians find it too difficult to change the status quo given the power behind these corporations = little changes, people are dissollusioned and the cycle continues.

This article This article (sorry about the double - link feature is wonky) looks at how news sources affect Americans’ views on the issues.

People who answered factual questions about inflation, crime, and immigration incorrectly were "more likely to opt for Trump," Ipsos said, while those who answered correctly preferred Harris. This fits with what I've seen. The ones I've talked to have not done in depth thoughtful research and are not interested. They've lapsed onto some buzzwords & untrue info and double down when faced with actual facts ('that's fake!').

I've also heard that Republican voters feel looked down on by Democrats, which is hilarious given Donald and his lavish lifestyle is being funded by fleecing the government during his first term and by his followers in the last 4 years. Harris and Walz are much more middle class.

I saw a friend of a friend comment on FB that she was a one issue voter who voted for Trump because Harris expressed empathy for the student protestors for Palestine. She didn't see any issue with that, despite Trump cozying up with the Proud Boys (6MWE) and promising to pardon the J6 ringleaders, hanging out with Nick Fuentes, spouting Nazi rhetoric, undermining US diplocacy attempts, etc. And repeatedly being talked out of using nukes in his last term (and there won't be any guard rails this term, so buckle up).

Another person I know, a self proclaimed proud Trump Girl, has posted how appalled she is about the racist texts being sent out yesterday to African Americans - how 'un American' it is. WTF did she think was going to happen? His election has given permission for overt racism and misogyny. (Your body my choice is being gleefully spouted all over social media) How could she have missed what he's been saying? All anyone has to do is listen when he speaks to know what he's like. A narcissistic, rambling, ignorant, racist, rapist who only ran to keep himself out of jail for many crimes, including stealing and sharing/selling national security documents and instigating an attempted coup.

“I meant ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ as a warning, not an instruction manual.” - Margaret Atwood

Thing is, many now realise that our country can't allow everyone in who wants to come. We just don't have the room or the infrastructure for an uncontrolled number of immigrants. Boat people and those who try to come in illegally should be deported immediately. Legal immigration should be only for people who can fill job vacancies. We need to look at how Australia manages immigration and learn from them. One thing is certain - we can't keep an 'open door to all' policy. It's just not sustainable.

We need to look at how Australia manages immigration and learn from them.

We need to also look at why they bypass other safe countries on route inorder to get to the UK.