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imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

959 replies

Cartwrightandson · 04/11/2024 13:15

A leaked French medical report from 2023 has confirmed that Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is male.

Top endocrinologists found that Khelif has XY chromosomes, no uterus, internal testicles, and a "micropenis."

The report was drafted in June of 2023 via a collaboration between the Kremlin-Bicêtre hospital in Paris, France, and the Mohamed Lamine Debaghine hospital in Algiers, Algeria. Drafted by expert endocrinologists Soumaya Fedala and Jacques Young, the report reveals that Khelif is impacted by 5-alpha reductase deficiency, a disorder of sexual development that is only found in biological males.

reduxx.info/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-has-xy-chromosomes-and-testicles-french-algerian-medical-report-admits/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
murasaki · 04/11/2024 15:34

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 15:31

Emily was sent back to the men's classes, much as he wailed all over Instagram that this was an act of genocide (his words, not mine).

Ffs he is such a narcissist

His mother is even worse. Luckily I'd almost forgotten about him as he seems to have stopped moaning so loudly recently. The big man baby.

It's also silly how he put those filtered photos up, but the minute he speaks or moves on film, we SEE him. As we did Khelif.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 04/11/2024 15:34

Polyp0 · 04/11/2024 13:27

Is this likely to be confirmed officially though?

My question as well.

Also: Has there been any kind of report by a (generally considered to be) reliable news outlet?

murasaki · 04/11/2024 15:35

Errors · 04/11/2024 15:32

Sorry, what is a TIM?

Trans identified man.

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 15:37

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 04/11/2024 15:34

My question as well.

Also: Has there been any kind of report by a (generally considered to be) reliable news outlet?

I'm not sure what reliable new outlet means these days. Many mainstream sources are in the business of obscuring the sex of men presenting as women. Is this reliable reporting?

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 15:37

This is just more background and will cross over with other posts, but I pulled this together in those many threads during the Olympics. And it could have some years slightly off.

A VIEW ON HOW MALE ATHLETES GOT TO COMPETE IN THE PARIS OLYMPICS 2024

1999 - From what I gather, from the Nature article posted up thread, is that a campaign group successfully convinced the IOC in the late 90s to prioritise inclusion. Because of what they position was the human rights violation of these male athletes with DSDs suffering indignities during testing and the outcomes of that testing.

So in the 1999 the OIC removed testing. 82% of female athletes wanted testing to remain.

Ie. My understanding is that the group campaigned that any male with a Difference of Sex Development that had been incorrectly registered as 'female' on their passport was to never be sex tested by the IOC again and allowed to compete as if they were female, regardless of whether they had gone through male puberty.

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

2004 - Then in 2004 they allowed male people who surgically removed their testes to compete in female competition. Because once you allow one group of male people in, you must equally allow the other in or you are discriminating against transgender people.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-approves-consensus-with-regard-to-athletes-who-have-changed-sex-1

2015 -Then in 2015, a campaign group including Harper, using Harper’s flawed study (see nequals8.com web site) convinces the IOC that it is unfair discrimination to exclude any male with a transgender identity describing themselves as a woman. The IOC changes the policy to allow them.

https://nequals8.com

^https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes^
https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

2016 -Then came the Rio trio in the female 800m and we start to see the testosterone suppression of the male people with DSDs come in. Semenya takes this to court in 2019. Appealed 2020. The evidence presented confirmed 5ARD and testosterone of 21 nmol/L.

2021 - 2020 Tokyo games held in 2021 was the testosterone suppressed games. Hubbard, a late 40 something male in female event where next youngest was probably a decade and a half younger, shines light on the issue.
The IOC reacts by announcing a review.

The new guidelines released Nov 2021 devolve responsibility for policy to each discipline’s international federation. ie. They force the sporting federations to make the hard decisions that the IOC refuse to make.

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf#_ga=2.219716894.621299853.1686571450-594927581.1678187184

They also reaffirm that 'inclusivity' is their over all priority. They say that safety is as well, but this is clearly contradictory when you consider boxing as an example.

The IOC is clear that they RECOGNISE that the inclusion of male athletes will be UNFAIR but their priority is inclusion. Richard Budgett said this.

The federations then develop their own policies. that have done this are : FINA, WA, UCI, IBA and WR. FIFA for instance announced a review years ago and done nothing. IBA announced their new policy in 22/23.

The WA have even stated that their new guidelines for the Olympics immediately excluded 13 males with DSDs with testosterone advantage from the competitions until those 13 male athletes chose to reduce their testosterone to 2.5 nmol/L for 2 years. 13 just in athletics competitions alone! (By the way, this reduction has already been shown to not eliminate unfair male advantage, but this is where we are at the moment.)

^https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900^

"Coe said this will impact 13 DSD athletes, seven (55%) of whom compete in running events above a mile, with six (45%) in sprinting events below 400m."

By the IOC removing the IBA from organising the boxing, the IOC left boxing only with the IOC inclusive guidelines.

So, we know from the announcement by Budgett from IOC in November 2021 that fairness was a lower priority to inclusion. It was along the lines of ‘we know it is unfair to include male people with pubertal advantage, but inclusion is our aim.’

And the IOC and other organisations still claim that Semenya is a 'female with naturally high testosterone' to this day. Despite the world being easily able to find the evidence presented to the CAS that Semenya is MALE with 5-ARD and had tested with a testosterone level of 21nmol/L. It looks like Khelif had levels of around 14-15 nmol/L.

NO female has that level and is healthy. They are likely to be gravely ill.

That is where we are now.

https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 15:37

It's already been confirmed by the IBA but no one wanted to listen to them either.

Chersfrozenface · 04/11/2024 15:38

murasaki · 04/11/2024 15:35

Trans identified man.

Khelif does not identify as trans. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

My source, Africa News, but also reported elsewhere.

Khelif says he is a woman. Or sometimes a girl. He isn't, of course, he is a man with a DSD which only affects males.

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 15:40

FOR ALL THOSE DENYING THAT A MALE WITH 5ARD DOES NOT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE AS POWERFUL AS A MALE WITHOUT THE MEDICAL CONDITION

RE: COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE OF 5ARD FROM THE CAS FINDING IN SEMENYA'S CASE

This is an interesting quote Ross Tucker has clipped from the CAS finding.
The text lifted from the photo says:

Because they are "biologically indistinguishable.. in all relevant respects". athletes with 5-ARD experience the same ergogenic effect from these physiological changes as males without DSD experience. The only material physical difference between 5-ARD athletes and male athletes without DSD is "the size and shape of their external genitals", which has no impact on athletic performance.

While no 5-ARD athlete has yet won a women's event by a margin of 10-12%, this fact has nothing to do with their condition. Rather, it reflects the fact that, "the particular [5-ARD] athletes we have seen thus far are not as good as the best males. Like many other (non-elite) males, they still beat the very best biological females, just by a smaller margin."

https://x.com/scienceofsport/status/1722006033491513584?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

His tweet says:

“It's interesting that this came up in the CAS hearing, too. World Athletics had kind of tap danced and skirted around it in the Chand case, but when Semenya played this card at CAS, World Athletics responded, and point 289 of the CAS decision captures the conclusion:”

I have seen a paper that goes through this by assessing the hormone levels of 5ARD and the hormones for sporting performance are produced and used by the body as per normal. I will see if I can dig it up again,.

x.com

https://x.com/scienceofsport/status/1722006033491513584?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

IhateSPSS · 04/11/2024 15:40

SidewaysOtter · 04/11/2024 15:25

Sunk cost fallacy, innit?

I do agree with the poster above who says they have some sympathy for those like IK who find themselves going through the "wrong" puberty which affects their entire sense of self.

But my sympathy runs out when it comes to knowingly competing as a man against women, with a colossal unfair advantage and pushing women out of sport when the bar for women's participation is already so much higher (e.g. culturally where it's not deemed "ladylike", or that women's sports don't get the same level of funding etc. etc.)

I wouldn't want any prize I hadn't won fair and square but the likes of IK don't seem to give a shit.

I agree.

IK was also blessed with knowledge about how far his strength could go. He will have seen, not only his limitations, but the damage he could do with his male physiology in training and in previous fights etc. Why anyone would actively choose to proceed knowing that level of advantage is in place? That is not 'sport'. It's an abuse of power and natural advantage. And why would anyone with any form of emotional regulation want to engage in the abuse of someone where you could end up ending their life? There is something very amiss with someone who knows they have a significant advantage over an opponent, can hurt them quite easily, and carrying on anyway.

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 15:40

MumblesParty · 04/11/2024 15:30

How do you think you’d get through life having no periods, and having a small penis, and not realise you were a man?!

Whatever about how Khelif found out about and came to terms with his condition. He failed 2 eligibility tests in 2023. He didn't appeal those tests or take any others. In 2024, he was 100% aware of his status as a male.

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 15:41

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 04/11/2024 15:34

My question as well.

Also: Has there been any kind of report by a (generally considered to be) reliable news outlet?

How do you see this working? Which 'reliable news outlet' will be able to get any source to publicly confirm this without Khelif's permission?

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 15:44

To be fair, however culpable Khelif is in all this, the IOC and the sporting bodies that gave him the green light in his own country are more so.

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 15:47

ACADEMIC PAPER IN RESPONSE TO THE IOC FRAMEWORK

This a good paper for pulling a lot of the information available up until the end of 2023 together.

The IOC framework was released in November 2021, after there was so much pushback about male athletes such as Hubbard (and historically Semenya).

^https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/sms.14581^

The International Olympic Committee framework on fairness, inclusion and nondiscrimination on the basis of gender identity and sex variations does not protect fairness for female athletes

February 1, 2024

Tommy R. Lundberg, Ross Tucker, Kerry McGawley, Alun G. Williams, Grégoire P. Millet, Øyvind Sandbakk, Glyn Howatson, Gregory A. Brown, Lara A. Carlson, Sarah Chantler, Mark A. Chen, Shane M. Heffernan, Neil Heron, Christopher Kirk, Marie H. Murphy, Noel Pollock, Jamie Pringle, Andrew Richardson, Jordan Santos-Concejero, Georgina K. Stebbings, Ask Vest Christiansen, Stuart M. Phillips, Cathy Devine, Carwyn Jones, Jon Pike, Emma N. Hilton

Perspectives:

The IOC framework on fairness, inclusion and nondiscrimination on the basis of gender identity and sex variations is misaligned with current scientific and medical evidence and offers insufficient protection of fair competition for female athletes within a female category. Also, it does not adequately engage female athletes, who are primary stakeholders in their sport. Male pubertal development results in large performance advantages in athletic sports, which necessitates a female category that excludes male advantages, to ensure equal opportunity through fair competition for female athletes at all levels of sport. There is currently no evidence that testosterone suppression in transgender women can reverse male development and negate male advantages. In contrast, there is convincing evidence that the male advantage persists even when testosterone is suppressed. As a result, sports face the uncomfortable reality that the inclusion of transgender women in female sports categories cannot be reconciled with fairness, and in some instances safety, for females in athletic sports. The IOC must reconsider its framework and revise the 10 principles to reflect scientific evidence and fundamental principles of fair competition. We also recommend implementing a system to enable female stakeholders to be consulted in this matter and to have their voices heard, recognized, and valued.

This paper is worth fully reading as it goes through some of the fallacies we have seen attempted on this very thread.

imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.
SoiledMyselfDuringSomeTurbulence · 04/11/2024 15:49

Chersfrozenface · 04/11/2024 15:38

Khelif does not identify as trans. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

My source, Africa News, but also reported elsewhere.

Khelif says he is a woman. Or sometimes a girl. He isn't, of course, he is a man with a DSD which only affects males.

The comments he's made there would get most people labelled as transphobic by the usual suspects. Certainly most women. Funny really.

CowboyJoanna · 04/11/2024 15:49

Chersfrozenface · 04/11/2024 15:38

Khelif does not identify as trans. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

My source, Africa News, but also reported elsewhere.

Khelif says he is a woman. Or sometimes a girl. He isn't, of course, he is a man with a DSD which only affects males.

He is a man who calls himself a woman.
That makes him trans.
A trans identified man.
It's like me saying I don't identify as white even though I have white skin and I'm British. Still doesn't change that I'm white.

Planesmistakenforstars · 04/11/2024 15:50

Beowulfa · 04/11/2024 14:43

Boxing is a risk sport. The weight categories are taken extremely seriously. Why isn't the categorisation of mens/womens events?

It is, thankfully, taken seriously by actual boxing organisations outside of Olympic competition. The major amateur boxing organisation (and the previous governing body for Olympic boxing) is the IBA. They do perform testing (and also have testosterone requirements) for women's boxing. It was their two tests which determined that Khalif is a man, and disqualified him (and also Lin Yu-Ting) from their competitions on that basis. The IBA has been dismissed as being corrupt by dint of being Russian. That "can't trust those Russians" narrative has gone a long way in helping brush this under the rug.The IBA did actually go to fairly great lengths to stop Khalif and Lin competing at the Olympics, on the grounds that it would be unsafe for women. The IOC though doesn't require proof, beyond a passport, that women are in fact women, and so ignored the IBA's protestations (and also lied that they knew Khalif was a man despite being sent the tests as proof.)

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 04/11/2024 15:50

wombat15 · 04/11/2024 14:42

Do you think imane khelif is anywhere near as strong as the male elite boxers?

Having a mutation that causes genital under-development in utero does not affect strength, so, yes: why not?

RobinEllacotStrike · 04/11/2024 15:50

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 15:14

Here is something else that became very apparent in the threads where so many people were declaring that Khelif was a 'cis' woman.

It means that cis was always a meaningless term.

So, based on posts from another thread where a poster assured us that cis women are what we should be talking about when referring to two male boxers who competed in the female category of boxing in the Paris Olympics, I decided that we need as many women who read these threads to understand just what that term means.

The term 'cis' is now meaningless because it also now includes any male person who has a DSD yet has a body that is **formed around the production of small gametes, ie. a male person with a difference of sex development that have testes or testes tissue. Such as Caster Semenya.

Therefore, female people have no unique words that describe just those female people who have a body ^^formed around the production of large gametes.

None.

There is no word left for female people. Because even male people are now saying they are also ‘female’.

Because 'girl' and 'woman' both now include:

1 Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **.
2 Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.
3 And any person who has a female body ^^.

Under the label of 'girl' and 'woman', extreme transgender activists have been telling us for years that those labels break down into two types of girls or women:

Cis and Transwomen/transgirls.

These terms mean:

Cis = (1) Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **

and

= (3) Any person who has a female body^^

Trans = (2) Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.

There is no unique word to mean female people who have a body ^^ formed around the production of large gametes.

Cis is now shown to be meaningless and it always was. It is also misogynistic because it leaves female people with no unique word for their needs.
(sorry, the formatting on this post is probably higgly piggly, hopefully the pic helps)

I mean, I do thank those posters who kept admonishing women because Khelif was a 'cis woman', because everytime a poster does that, it really showed the falsity that is this very poor foundation for using such a word.

reposting because all this is very important & worth repeating

You may not think it matters that men are allowed by the IOC into womens sporting catagories.

But do take a minute to read the above and understand that TRA's and their minions - embedded in most government departments, NHS etc - have sucessfuly convinced the "be kinders" and the unthinkers and the BBC/Guardian and other media, and misogynists, that WOMEN and GIRLS shall not have words to describe them as a class of people. Even "female" as a class shall be denied us.

So while calling a TIM a man is the very worst that could possibly happen to him <faints> women and girls shall be denied even a single word, and we are meant to be fucking thankful for this privilige.

I DON'T FUCKING THINK SO!!!

RobinEllacotStrike · 04/11/2024 15:53

Khelif does not identify as trans. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

and yet astonighingly I've seen no trans/trans fans going after Khelif for this massive insult - make it make sense 😂😂😂

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 04/11/2024 15:55

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 15:37

I'm not sure what reliable new outlet means these days. Many mainstream sources are in the business of obscuring the sex of men presenting as women. Is this reliable reporting?

I do agree that reliable is incredibly subjective.

But I couldn’t find anything even remotely mainstream about this new development, tbh.

CowboyJoanna · 04/11/2024 15:55

Honestly I don't even think Imane Khelif was ever a hermaphrodite in the first place. I think he was born a full man with a normal penis. But because Algeria is a sexist muslim country, he might have been raised as a girl because his parents WANTED a girl, or he might have just been in touch with his feminine side so it was better to call him a woman than have him suspected as a gay man.

Then when he grew up, he learnt that he could professionally get off to punching up women for sport because he's too much of a coward to punch other man.

porridgecake · 04/11/2024 15:56

CosmicRoomster · 04/11/2024 15:06

For anyone questioning Reduxx - people behind these types of organisations (thinking grassroots feminist orgs) have to go beyond normal measures to ensure the information they share is correct.

Thinking back to the time when an organisation (might have been Transgender Trend but I’m not sure) did a FOI request and found that male trans prisoners were far more likely to be incarcerated for sex crimes than their non-trans counterparts.
Obviously this was met with uproar and accusations of bigotry (of course), so the study was then done independently. The figures were found to be higher than the feminist org had included in their data.

I trust info coming from these places far more than mainstream news outlets, who are hellbent on placating these men and their fawning pathetic followers.

Yes it was about 8 x higher than the rest of the male prison population.

MumblesParty · 04/11/2024 15:57

wombat15 · 04/11/2024 14:42

Do you think imane khelif is anywhere near as strong as the male elite boxers?

@wombat15 no, clearly not. Hence him deciding he’d rather fight women. Just like all those other mediocre sports men who decide they’ll look better if they’re compared to women rather than other men.

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 04/11/2024 15:57

I’m glad he’s been proved to be male. But it doesn’t make much difference, as men are now allowed to compete in women’s sport if they say they ‘identify’ as a woman.

This fellow is only worse than the rest because he took the opportunity to beat up a woman. But all males competing in women’s sports are cheating, and they continue to get away with it.

Mustreadabook · 04/11/2024 15:59

lifeturnsonadime · 04/11/2024 13:32

He went through male puberty. He knew full well he wasn't a woman and still went on to beat women up in the Olympics.

Intent does indeed count.

I am sorry he has a DSD but that doesn't give him the right to punch women.

Puberty is affected by y 5-alpha reductase deficiency, so it wouldn't be a normal male puberty. (Though it wouldn't be a female puberty either.)