Taking bets... Keir Starmer or Kemi Badenoch?

[Papyrophile]

Which will lose their party's favour first?

I've said this before on these threads, but Labour mismanaging the economy more than the Tories is a complete fallacy if you seek out independent analysis - even accounting for the fact that Tories have spent more time in power than Labour. The UK economy generally fares slightly better under Labour governments over the past several decades. Yes, there has been very bad on both sides. But the 'Tories are better with the economy' narrative is a false one.

I shall judge this government at the end of its term, based on evidence and not speculation.

Give me safe, boring Starmer any day. Where has characterful, populist politics got us? Badenoch is a lurch to the right. Centrist Labour and Tory parties win elections. Keir is accused of being too right wing by his own party, and too left wing by armchair pundits. So he's probably got it about right.

We haven’t seen the plan for the NHS and won’t until the Spring. Of course it’s under consultation, that’s how the best and most innovative ideas are gleaned. I honestly don’t understand the impatience, surely it’s better to have considered, properly thought through policies than knee jerk crowd pleasers? And they haven’t had 14 years - the NHS has deteriorated beyond recognition since 2010, with covid escalating that.

I think the sensible plan is to start charging for part of it, as they do in other European countries, or bring in insurance.

If Labour did either of these things I'd be delighted. But I suspect we'll all be paying and paying and paying to keep the same sub standard service that we have now.

This is what's wrong with the voting base. The most important issue should be the economy. It has limped along since Brown and 2008. It took forever to regain levels and then was hit again by the double whammy of Covid and Brexit.

Without a productive, dynamic economy generating growth and income, this country is never going to thrive. A robust economy would deliver funds to input into healthcare, education etc,

KB's first PMQs will be interesting to watch though.

I think the sensible plan is to change the things that aren’t working. The GP and dentistry delivery models, the silo working between different organisations, the outdated IT systems, the list is endless. The last thing that’s needed is a change in the funding model that won’t make care any better for a single patient. If you want health insurance, there are already plenty of providers.

You ve obviously no idea of how the so called european health model works or how many different models they have do you?

How can people on the UKs overall low wages afford co payments or insurance and euro models rely on high employer contributions .... & we are are all moaning about business being asked to pay a very small amount more.

Streeting needs to get on and find the £4 billion that is required to fund NHS Dentistry.

How bizarre that you'd assume I don't know how it works.

The French health care system is excellent. Money to see a GP reimbursed by insurance or the state. Businesses can pay, but as they see the money being used wisely, and as their own experiences are so good, they are less distrustful of paying into the insane black hole of the NHS.

Also more preventative health culture - and more emphasis on keeping weight down!!

Money to see a GP reimbursed by insurance or the state.

So adding in more bureaucracy will improve healthcare? The biggest problem with the NHS is there’s already too much bureaucracy, adding more is like trying to put a fire out with petrol.

You cannot compare the UK today to back when Labour were last in charge. There's millions more people for a start, plus we have had covid and Brexit since then, plus the problem of small boat crossings.

On the NHS, I have a friend who works in clinical commissioning. She says the biggest waste of money in the NHS is on missed appointments. I'd like to see that tackled as a priority, along with remodelling GP and dentistry services which have not kept pace with population changes and expectations over the years. Increased management of GP services by Trusts is a must. I think we can learn a lot from other European countries, but bringing in more bureaucracy and insurance models will not fix it.

Then you'd know the French are taxed substantially more than we are, as are business & no they are not happy paying these taxes either.

But you don't, you just parrot the usual "I want a Euro system..." rubbish.

the NHS is judged to be a lot more efficient than the French system too, it just the UK tax payer, refuses to pay more into the pot.... and when forced too, turns on the Govt of the day.... as your proving admirably.

I know an OT, she has a young stroke patient (severe) this person would have received 1yr of therapy, because of cuts to care/lack of staff, she will get 6 weeks... thats what the Tories have done to Healthcare.

Preventative??? don't make me laugh, look what happened when a smoking ban proposed? media/tory supporters aghast! "how dare they take away our freedoms"

The Did Not Attends should be shamed. DH went for an outpatient cardiac day case surgery (small but very high tech procedure, involving an IT team as well as the doctor, anaesthetist and nursing teams).

Six cases were scheduled for the clinic, and two turned up! After telephone interviews and pre-clinic checks, appointment reminders at two- and one-week intervals and a phone call the day before, plus text messages, on top of the original letter. As long as Joe Public thinks it's okay to abuse the system and waste resources like this, there's no hope for the NHS.

I've said multiple times I am perfectly happy for income tax to be raised.

We are only having these conversations because Labour decided in their infinite wisdom not to do this.

Yes and this is why they should start paying even a nominal amount.

I totally agree. He speaks sense and hasn’t got caught up in gender issues. Keir S has turned out to be an untrustworthy snake. On a side note all of you who support him Why can’t you spell his name correctly?

I was a speech and language therapist under Blair’s NHS. They brought in US style ‘packages of care’ which restricted length of treatment to six weeks. Absolutely fucking useless. That’s the reason I retrained as a teacher.

Starmer will see Badenoch off and probably her two replacements as well.

Anecdotes from one service are pretty worthless compared with data. All the stats show the NHS was operating far more effectively in the Blair/Brown government years. Added to which there was 70% patient satisfaction, it’s 24% now.

This is no comfort to the parents of children who didn’t and still don’t get enough therapy. And don’t get me started on the closure of special schools. This isn’t a party political issue. Children are being failed by all governments.

Starmer will outlast Badenoch and at least one more Tory leader.

Some people are being very silly about Starmer. I think we’ve got into the habit of thinking PMs only last 5 mins!

It was a lot of comfort for all the people who got to see a GP within 48 hours, were in and out of A&E in four hours or got their operation within 18 weeks.

More children and adults now don't get the therapies they need.

Of course its party political.

Tories believes in/or want a smaller state, Labour thinks differently.... listen to Badenochs views on less state involvement.

Smaller state means less/worse public services....... the length of time to see a SALT is at an all time high, with over 76k children waiting more than 1 year & a further 21k adults waiting a year plus too.

thats happened under 14years of Tory administrations that chose to under fund the NHS & introduce tuition fees for Nurses and AHPs, like Physio's, OTs and SALTs.

Hunt himself admitted this as a backbencher and as sec for health....

She says the biggest waste of money in the NHS is on missed appointments.

If they made it easier for people to call/email to cancel, this would become less of an issue. I mean, who is seriously going to 'hold the line' for upwards of half an hour for an appointment they no longer want?
The NHS thinks people have all the time in the world... then moan when their own time is wasted!

Our GP sends texts to confirm appointments with a link to click to cancel. Obviously that's not going to make it easier for some people but will for the majority.

Hospital appointments are another matter, admittedly. When I've had dealings with the local hospital it's been fairly straightforward to get through to the right department. Another trust we have used recently has a massive firewall that makes it take ages to get through to the right department. Even if they answer quickly, there is no guarantee they got it right.

Heard on a podcast some Tory MP's already want rishi back, he's not leaving the country like many think so they believe he can be leader again in two years

Stranger has happened