Taking bets... Keir Starmer or Kemi Badenoch?

[Papyrophile]

Which will lose their party's favour first?

If only the Tories limited their merry-go-round of leaders to the years when they are not in government.

Yeah I don’t know. I’m not far right in the least and tend to hug the centre. I think it’s good that Labour have a plan I’m just not sure it’s the right plan for economic growth but time wilL tell. Small businesses will definately and there should have been better levels - as an example caps, NI and tax only increasing on companies with more than 10 employees for example. Yes I understand this would have meant more zero hours contracts and under the table etc. But this will hurt working class people not just help them. Feels a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Unfortunately for me having morals isn’t taking money for free clothes, free glasses, free clothes for the wife, free tickets, free football hospitality. Yeah I know, the comeback will be ‘oh but the Tories’ and you would be right, but I am taking about our current prime minister who ran on morals and frankly has let himself down. I’m sure it’s all above board but again we are talking about morals not legality. Will this guide my vote? No, but it’s when they bend the rules when no one is watching (because no he didn’t have to declare as leader of the opposition) that feels like a slippery slope and leads back to the feeling that all politicians are essentially the same but varying degrees of morally bankrupt.

No, I know you didn't @EasternStandard . I just meant that the polls are irrelevant now as the electorate don't get a say for years. The only people who could act on the polls are MPs, who are highly unlikely to do so.

Yes I remember 2011 and KS really hasn’t updated as the years have gone by, has he?

Well he was DPP in 2011 and he is not now. So I think what you really mean is the judicial system consistently treats rioters harshly.

Rachel Reeves on BBC now with Laura k - Kemi Badenoch to follow.

Unfortunately I’ve already shared it three times so can’t do it again

Why not? The link might be behind a paywall, so you might not be able to share a free version, but some on here have subscriptions?

The overton window has clearly shifted massively if Badenoch is a facist extreme right winger. This kind of hyperbole is slightly hysterical.

Thanks. I’d watch it if it were any other presenter. Laura K is just the worst.

Um … no, I think I mean he pushed for the same result from a different position of power in both cases.

Assault and arson are serious in any circumstances, but six months for nicking (‘looting’) a bottle of water from Lidl is a poor use of public money imo.

Sure but I don’t think that this quite takes into consideration that people didn’t always vote Labour. A lot of people voted not Tory. A lot can happen in five years time…..

4 1/2 years is a veeeery long time in politics.

So you are saying in 2011 Starmer pushed for harsh sentencing (even though DPP does not make decisions on the sentences of individuals) but Cameron (rightly) had nothing to do with the outcome of the prosecutions?

Yet in 2024 the PM suddenly has the the power to interfere with the judicial system? And the judicial system just rolls over and does the PM's bidding? Including the current DPP, (who was selected by a Tory MP).

Oookay.

The Tories seem to put a woman into a position of power when the shit is hitting the fan then drop her like a hot brick when the storm has passed. It seems to me their strategy is to use a woman to distance themselves from the bad times and failures and then slide an old Etonian into place when there's glory to be had. See Truss, May, Allegra Stratton etc.

That's where Kemi is now I reckon.

I do think PMQs will be interesting. I predict that Starmer will find Badenoch difficult to deal with-she's quite chaotic and he's a straight down the line thinker.

She came across as incredibly arrogant on LK this morning. Partygate was overblown because the laws were wrong in the first place, the welfare state needs cutting, Rachel Reeves being chancellor is no big deal...I'm sure it played well to those who like her already, but I can't see her winning many people over based on her performance today.

Agree with all of this. She came across more like a secondary school teacher rather than the leader of the Conservative Party. Her condescending tone was annoying.

Maybe it will depend on how good her PR assistants are. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair did quite a lot on that aspect, where BJ does nothing because he genuinely cannot understand why anybody wouldn’t love him at sight and forever. Maggie had her whole image remodelled, including her voice.

Do people warm to Starmer and Reeves these days?

Isn't the consensus on Starmer that he is dull? People may not warm to him and Reeves, but I don't think many people (those who haven't got deep political allegiances one or the other already) find them deeply unpleasant in the way Kemi so often presents herself.

Who knows his personal ratings are very low so I can't see there's much love there, and he used to be billed as 'boring' in focus groups but that switched to 'liar' at freebie gate time

I find him worse than dull in terms of delivery, in that I can't listen to either of them anymore, just the voices are enough. But also the content. Easier just to skip

Yes, but you don't fall into the 'don't have deep political allegiances on either side' category, do you, @EasternStandard ?

I have voted for both major parties, pretty evenly split

And the ratings show many others feel the same as I do anyway. Maybe not so much on mn but there's a lot of pro Starmer posters

Starmer will last longest IMO.

Mostly because the Tory's still haven't found their parties place and are still chasing the reform votes.

We are a centric country in general. Always have been.

Of the Torys went back to their one nation roots I think it would be a shoe in win.

However that won't be whilst the likes of Badenoch and Braverman et Al are dominating their policies.

I'm also a fan of streeting.

Out of the two I currently have a higher opinion of Reeves than Starmer. She's right in the firing line but doesn't appear to be phased by the criticism. I'm disappointed with Starmer already. The 'toolmaker' references can't be erased.