AIBU to not see the sudden rush to buy DSS a car.

[Digitaldedado]

DSS is learning to drive and has been learning in his mum’s and our car – he has just started lessons with an instructor. Once he has passed his test he will be able to drive his mum’s but not ours (we won’t let him drive it alone, it’s only a couple of months old and far too powerful for a young driver) With that in mind we (his dad and I) have promised to help him buy a car, deal was whatever he saved from his part-time job and our allowance we would match and I have promised to either pay a contribution to his fuel or pay his insurance until he has finished uni. Suddenly DSS mum has asked if we should buy him a car for his birthday / Christmas (she is not offering to help financially – but wants the gift to be from all of us). I honestly don’t see why we should yet, he is in his last year at school, can walk to and from school, he really needs to get his studies into gear and think it will be a distraction going out at night and weekends. More importantly – HE HASN’T PASSED HIS TEST! I get the feeling that his mum wants the big grand gesture of buying him a car but isn’t really thinking it through. Of course we will honour our word, but I think getting the test out of the way is more important. Then we can look for the right car for him and not rush into it at breakneck speed just so he gets a car with a bow on Christmas day. AIBU?

Why would a cheaper car break down all the time. My OH has just bought a car for 4k, theres no expectation it will breakdown or is 'really crap'. What does that mean anyway?

I could probably re buy my current car for around 4k if I found the equivalent somewhere, its probably got about another 10 years in it and is 15 years old now. I paid 5k for it 7 years ago.

He probably doesn't have it and they just want 5k off you to match this imaginary amount

I’m just going by my own experience tbh. There will be some good deals out there if you know a bit about cars and can spot a good one, but I am not one of those people and my previous car bought for £3k was 10 years old and lasted 18 months before it developed a serious engine fault. The car before that was a similar age (though low mileage) when I bought it and the electrics were a nightmare. Maybe I’m just unlucky 🤷‍♀️ Prices shot up after Brexit and haven’t fully come down yet, I don’t think you get even close to as much for your money as you used to.

We've always bought old but reliable cars. Nissan note, bullet proof (the old ones). Old micras, bullet proof. Go on forever. Hyundai, Honda, Toyota. Not blingy, not glam, not particuarly powerful or fancy, but utterly predictable, cheap to buy, cheap to run, go on for ever. I always look for high mileage too, shows its been used consistently without sitting around or problems causing it not be used.

In fact they last too long. I wouldnt mind a change but cant justify it. Waiting for someone to run into it so that it can be written off! That happened with two of our previous Nissans!

Pretty easy to say no when the mum isn't contributing anything!

Just remind her of the original plan and never mention it again!

Like others have said, there's absolutely no point buying him a car before he's passed his test. It'll just sit there rotting, and unless someone else is going to drive it around for him, it'll degrade quickly. Cars need to be driven regularly to stay in decent shape.

I passed my test just after turning 18, but was nearly 23 before I purchased my own car! In the gap I was at uni, so didn't need a car. And when I did, I borrowed my parents, and was also on the insurance for my older sisters car for a while.
I think it's a good idea to "tick off the skill" while still living at home, but there's no reason to rush out and get a car for no reason.

'We'll talk to DS about this directly. We're happy to do what we said we'd do, but not this Sunday. If you've got the money yourself for the car and the insurance too, then go right ahead'

We bought my DS a used car when he passed his test, not before, drive it for 6 months and its now on the drive while he's 400 miles away at Uni, doesn't get driven, still paying extortionate costs for insurance and didn't drive it when he came back for reading week as he was on the P most nights with his mates! Its none of his mums business if she's not paying.

I'd ask to see proof he actually has the money before you consider buying a car Op, it's possible he has less and they're hoping to buy a cheaper car but with your DH still paying £5000 towards it. His Ex seems very free with your DHs money and him paying 50/50 was the agreement.
It's kind of you to offer help but there's no point in paying huge insurance costs until he passes his test

She can "want" and "maintain her stance" all she likes but that won't magically result in money transferring from your bank account to hers.
Just. Say. No.

He is having lessons and he has two cars to practice on in the meantime and two sets of parents to practice with. That's all he needs until he passes his test. Utterly pointless to have a car sat on the drive, running up high insurance when he hasn't passed his test and might fail a couple of times. That could be months away, maybe over a year. During which he can't drive anywhere without his parents.

I'm a bit dubious about the point of having his own car if he's going to uni though as he can't drive your car once he passes test it makes more sense. (My uni age son drives my car when he's home but it is the second household car/small cheap runaround.)

I would be a bit wary about the alleged £5k saved and would want to see proof before matching it as agreed. BTW was the agreement also conditional on him passing the test first? If so that will be an easy retort to make at this stage.

I would be telling her that she doesn't get the credit for your gifts unless she's chipping in and you agree. So if she isn't contributing even when the car is purchased it wont be "from her" as well. If she wants to buy a gift herself that's fair enough and she can go right ahead.

Carry on saying no. What can she do?
She can be as 'firm' as she likes but if your husband replies each time with the exact same sentence eg we agreed x and x is what we are doing. This will not change

The only way she gets this money is if your husband caves in.

That will be on him.

Leave it to his parents to discuss. Let his mum and dad talk about what's best for their son.

"We've told him we'll get him a car when he passes his test. Anyway, we've already bought his Christmas present."

End of. No need for further discussion.

Second hand cars don't "break down all the time", not even those at the bargain basement end of the market. It's all a matter of research, checking the service and MOT history, getting it checked over by the AA or equivalent mechanic to check it's not been written off or cut and shut and doesn't have any other major problems. Most cars break down because they've not been properly serviced/maintained or have been driven badly - both aspects can be checked pretty easily by someone who knows what they're doing. There's also an absolute mine of information on the internet - lots of Facebook groups dedicated to particular types/models of cars where "known" issues are regularly discussed and advised upon, likewise lots of chat rooms, forums, etc.

It's entirely possible to get an "old banger" for £2.5k that will be just as reliable as a £10k car and probably cost no more to service and repair. The current average age of a car on the road today is between 13 and 14 years old! A decent proportion are 20 years old or more. Funny how you see just as many new or nearly new cars broken down at the side of roads and motorways as 15 year old ones! Like I say, most of the problems are down to poor servicing/maintenance or poor driving!

Stand on the side of a bog standard road for an hour or so, or stand in a retail park or supermarket car park and make a tally of older cars, say over 15 years old. You'll see trends straight away as to the numbers of certain makes and models that are passing. You will see lots of certain makes/models and virtually none of other makes/models. That kind of "research" can be invaluable to inform you as to what makes/models are likely to stand the test of time.

Personally, one of our family cars is a 16 year old Citroen C3. Look around you on the roads and you'll see loads of them from the 2004 to 2009 era - the old mark 1 C3 model. There's a reason for that. They're reliable little things. By contrast, you see few of the later model from 2010 to circa 2015. You also see relatively few C1 and C2s and even fewer Xsara Picassos which dominated that era when new! That just shows that even within a manufacturer, certain models stand the test of time better than others, and even certain ages of the same model last better/worse than younger/older versions. Our 16 year old C3 has just passed it's MOT, again, with not even a single advisory - it's virtually indestructible, all it's ever cost us is the annual service and the consumables such as tyres, brakes, screen wipers, spark plugs, bulbs, battery, and the timing belt. Every MOT we expect bad news, but it constantly surprises us. Like I say, there's a reason why there are so many C3s of that era still driving around on roads today! Something like that can be picked up for between £1k and £3k and even higher mileage ones will be good for a few more years if they've a full service history and a good history from the MOTs of no advisories and no major failures (which would indicate bad driving if for something like suspension).

Happened to a good friend of mine after her and her DH agreed to contribute to his daughter’s car. To be fair her mother wasn’t involved but they had agreed 5k and she said she’d match it.
When they got to the showroom the daughter had actually received a 5k windfall but had spent 4K of it already on stuff she really needed - booked a holiday to Ibiza, clothes, Botox, weekends away the works.
So she had 1k and told her dad he’d need to pay all other costs for the car as she needed her money for her lifestyle.
The car was purchased but my friend struggled as she’s contributed 2k of her own savings.
And now pre-Christmas the DSS is short of funds and needs topping up for Christmas clothes, trips, markets, hairdresser.
My friend and her DH aren’t rolling in money. Ordinary jobs but they are really good at budgeting.
If this young man is funded for this car without him chipping in what will he expect for his 18th? 21st?
It is all a floor show from his mother. If she wanted to chip in 5k then fair enough but she needs to be told…. no!

Is this a new car for DSS or a new car for the ex? I'd lay bets she is planning to be the prime insured driver and the £5k is coming mostly from trading in her car and using "his" while he is at school/uni.

No - we have already bought him a gift and will plan for this when a) he passes his test and b) we figure out with him whether it's best used to reduce his uni debts or for a car in due course if he goes to a campus with parking.

A friends son got done for drink driving at uni. Criminal record, no grad scheme was open to him. It's been life changing. I wouldn't entertain sending my kids to uni with a car, far too much cost and temptation.

I totally agree. My last car was 12 years old when I bought it for £3K and it lasted me 7 years. It even passed a few MOTs with no work needing doing! Our current car is now 14 years old, we bought it 2 years ago, and still going strong.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams

A friends son got done for drink driving at uni. Criminal record, no grad scheme was open to him. It's been life changing. I wouldn't entertain sending my kids to uni with a car, far too much cost and temptation.

We deliberately kept an old family car for our son to learn in and have full access to. We would have normally traded it in a couple of years earlier, but decided to keep it. Put son on the insurance straight away on his 17th birthday and we took him out a lot in it - he basically became our "chauffer" to go shopping, days out, etc whilst he was a learner. When possible we'd also go to or from school in it for him to drive there or back to get driving experience at busy times. When he passed, he had "full" use of it, but under our rules, i.e. no going out pubbing in the evenings.

We didn't let him take it to Uni for years 1 and 2, but he didn't want it there either as the buses between campus and town were good enough. He took it for the last two terms of year 3 as he was living off campus and there was plenty of free on street parking near where he lived - but even then he still tended to travel to/from campus by bus due to hefty car park charges on campus - he just used the car for days out with his friends/flat mates, coming home for the odd weekend, going shopping to the retail park and supermarkets etc. All he had to pay was the petrol he used.

Even now he's moved away to the other side of the country with his first proper job, he wasn't too bothered about taking the car with him. He uses the bus to go into town for work and pub evenings and uses the train to go to football matches every Saturday, home and away. He just likes having the car to go to the supermarket for his weekly shop and to drive to the park n ride if the normal bus that runs outside his flat doesn't turn up. So more of a "back up" option rather than regular use.

We'd promised him we'd buy him a newer car at some point, but that point has never arisen, he's just not bothered, as he's happy with his old banger for the time being. We paid half his first year's rent instead which was far more useful for him - he had to pay a full year upfront to secure his flat, so we went halves with him as he didn't have enough savings to pay it all himself.

Yup, my first two cars back in the 80s were old bangers costing just a couple of hundred quid a pop. First was an Austin Allegro - generally regarded as an unreliable and generally crap car, but the one I had last me around five years without any problems. I only changed it because I fancied something different and was a bit bored with it! The second, similarly a couple of hundred was an old Austin Maestro, another generally regarded as unreliable and crap. Again, lasted around five years with no problems. I can't fully remember, but probably bought them around 7/8/9 years old and sold around 12/13/14 years old I would guess. I had both checked over before purchase and both came with full service history, and latest MOT was clean (you couldn't check the full MOT history in those days).

The Allegro was bought by someone locally and I'd regularly see it on the roads for another few years. Can't remember either car actually breaking down requiring AA/RAC assistance. But I was paranoid about having them properly serviced at least yearly, and I never drove them like an idiot in terms of either speeding nor heavy braking/acceleration, nor abusing the clutch/gear box, nor bouncing up/down kerbs to park etc.

TBH there are too many accidents involving young men who pass their tests and have free access to a car that they then fill with their mates, go out, are distracted by their mates or drinking or just showing off without enough experience on the road.

The part of the brain that assesses risk doesn't develop until 21 or so. Pass the test by all means but unfettered access to their own car at 17/18 is different. Unless they are the most sober and sensible of teens, and even then that's only until they have a car full of mates.

It's better to have a scenario a PP suggested where the teen drives on family trips out etc to get experience.

Your DSS mum seems in an awful hurry for him to learn to drive and be independent....why is that? Will it help her in some way?

@Towerofsong

Your DSS mum seems in an awful hurry for him to learn to drive and be independent....why is that? Will it help her in some way?

I think a couple of previous posters have nailed it with the suggestion that the ex will think it's a good idea for the son to "keep it" on her drive at her home, and put it with him as named driver on her insurance, so she can use it when he's not using it, which if he's away at Uni for 3 years will probably be her main car for those three years. I suspect she knows her own car is on it's last legs and it's her way of getting a replacement at someone else's cost!

That’s bonkers. Also, is he properly insured to learn on your 2 month old very powerful car? I can’t imagine many insurers agreeing to that.

@Towerofsong

TBH there are too many accidents involving young men who pass their tests and have free access to a car that they then fill with their mates, go out, are distracted by their mates or drinking or just showing off without enough experience on the road

Part of the reason why we gave our son an old banger. We've over-stated how unreliable and risky it is for it to go too far or too fast! We've warned him not to travel more than an hour at a time "just in case" the engine cooling system fails and it ends up blowing the head gasket. We've warned him not to go over 70 (well we've said 60) even on motorways in case the stress on the engine/gear box/suspension is too much. In fact, we've basically "limited" him to within the ring road of the town where he now lives which gets him everywhere local that he'll need such as supermarkets, football stadium, retail parks, workplace, city centre, golf course, sports hall/pitches etc. Obviously we have no control over what he does or where he goes, but I think we've scared the shit out of him after over-emphasising the risks of him stressing a very old car. He's watched all the Top Gear episodes throughout his childhood and teen years, so it's hit a nerve as he's "grown up" with old cars driven by Jeremy, James and Richard which blow their head gasket due to coolant leaks, or break suspension rods going too fast over bumpy roads, etc. etc., so the kind of "risks" we've told him about he can relate to after seeing similar things happen on Top Gear!

We also ensured he did a hell of a lot of driving us around during the period he was learning and also the year or two after passing, to really build his experience, resilience, etc., on lots of different roads, different driving conditions, etc. He drove more than we did over those couple of years!

We can only hope he's sensible enough not to go drink driving or getting over excited if he's got friends in the car. No one can control that when someone has left home, living a couple of hundred miles away, etc., but he's an adult now and it's up to him if he chooses to risk his life, his job, his licence, etc.

Why? Its not expensive to insure learners, their insurance goes through the roof once they've passed because they're very new but on their own

The cars DSS are 'apparently' suggesting are utter bonkers, and a quick google suggests he wouldn't get insured on them anyway. It's just frustrating because this whole thing will be spun as - your dad has let you down again, hollow promises,
When this isn't what we bloody agreed in the first place. It's just exhausting.

Can't you have a direct conversation with DS himself, obviously without his mother there, to talk about this?