Infant at a hen do

[BrislingtonCat]

We are in our late 20s and I have recently got engaged, and I don’t have children yet. My oldest and closest friend has just told me that she’s pregnant. She also moved to Dublin with her husband for their work.

She is a co-MOH. The current plan is for the hen to be a night out in Bristol (where I live and where she is from), and I believe my other MOH is planning some sort of activity during the day as well. None of my other friends have children.

Her child will be 3 months by the time we have the hen do, and she has said she cannot come unless the baby can come too. I feel strongly that a hen do is no place for a child, but I also desperately want her to be there as I so rarely get to see her given she has moved abroad.

so I am turning to the mums out there! Is 3m too young to leave and AIBU by telling her that her baby cannot come? I understand if that means she cannot come at all and would respect that.

I wonder where common sense has gone after reading some posts.

A hen party where everyone is single without children, is not the place for a 3 month old. This is life, and life comes with priorities clashes.

The OP's friend has not yet had the baby, and it's almost sure she'll see travelling abroad with a newborn to attend the hen party in a whole different new light once her after birth hormones kick in. Those first few months are so difficult to establish a routine with a newborn that it's doubtful she'll want to compromise it to attend a hen party overseas.

The OP should have the party she wants. It's her wedding. She obviously loves her friend very much and have included the family and the baby at her wedding. I applaud how mature she's being in understanding that sometimes in life we can't get everything we want because good friends, sometimes, have different and opposite priorities.

Agreed, OP even suggested a separate special day for the two of them and she said no because she'd feel left out...

Completely agree. Part of being a parent is realising you can’t always do everything you want to because the child comes first.

Like most of us I had to say no to nights out, weekends away, holidays etc when my DS was young but that’s part and parcel of parenthood.

You worded this really well, completely agree 🤗

A baby at a hen is gonna be no fun for anyone especially not mum. I would try and work around her but you may have to accept that she might just not want to come also. She will probably be knackered, still have baby weight and feel uncomfortable with no clothes and the thought of being separated will cause major anxiety. If she is BF then that's another dimension of reasons why she cant leave the baby. It's not that she doesn't care about you and your hen it's just that her world has changed. Try not to be upset if she doesn't and just organise a weekend to visit her n the baby separately to see her if you miss her. The dust will settle eventually for her and she will get back back to herself again or a version close enough. I'd keep things open as she might want a break when the time comes but I doubt she'd travel solo for that break. If baby comes with husband she still has to get up n be mummy after the hen maybe even 2 hours after lol so she's not gonna be the life and soul either. Just try and keep an open mind and don't take anything that happens too personal.

These “you won’t notice the baby is there” comments are ridiculous. Of course you would and it would change the vibe of the day

Mums need to realise that for a time in their life they won’t be included in everything and it is not the fault of others who want an adult focused event

And for those hard of hearing or in this case reading the bride in this case is not the bridezilla some of you are making her out to be

Exactly and at three months the baby is going to start being a bit more alert ,and rightly need lots of attention ,they might be teething, a hen do is probably the last place i would have taken my babies too.

I would imagine she is thinking that she could perhaps do what some of the posters on here are suggesting...not coming to a night out drinking but as its a hen weekend perhaps a daytime activity since you'll have time for a few varied activities if it's a weekend away.

It's really not easy travelling with such a young child.

I went to the inlaws for the weekend when my LG was 6 weeks old for my husband's 40th birthday and although only an hour and a half away - being away from the ease and comforts of home was so hard and I really regret it. We also went with my husband to a work conference with my mum to help out at 8 weeks...another disaster. At 3 months I spent most of my day on the sofa breastfeeding or with my daughter asleep on me and unable to move.

A friend of mine went away for a weekend for another friend's baby shower when her daughter was one month old and was bottle feeding but it was super hard still. That was for an afternoon tea and she was able to pop to see her husband and baby when needed as they were staying at the same venue. Another friend took her husband and baby along to a friends 40th birthday drink and lunch at a restaurant in London...it was at a hotel and had an attached bar area and her husband stayed there and she popped out to breastfeed baby when needed.

If you did one daytime activity that she could attend then baby's dad could look after them most of the time but nearby / out of sight (if wanted) and your friend could pop to see or feed baby when needed.

You could do a nice lunch or brunch (which could also involve booze but you also might appreciate something different if all hung over) or even an afternoon tea...could be a cool,stylish one or I did an afternoon tea and craft session at a cool venue in London as part of mine...gave people the option of coming to all or part of the gen do. I also did a casual brunch the next day with a few friends still temaining in London and an old friend with kids who couldn't make the rest of it. Having different elements is fun,varied and can be a way of appealing to different friends and also different budgets.

As the hen do location is where she is from, if she is able to come for part of it then she can combine it with seeing any of her family and other friends and a chance to introduce baby. So she may really want to make it work. I don't think its unreasonable to have a smaller more low key chilled daytime event to contrast with the boozy part which would then enable her to come and it wouldn't be all about the baby at all. Just something different to mix it up.

Sure you can make it work and all have an awesome time and enjoy your hen do. It sounds like she is a v close friend.

I think she’s being selfish. She can’t reasonably expect your hen do to be arranged to accommodate her needs and to revolve around her and her baby. It’s your hen do so you should be paramount. She needs to accept that her situation as a new mother changes things for her and there will be things that she can’t do even if she wants to. IMO, if she’s a real friend she should decline the invitation with good grace.

What is the day activity? If it was something like pottery painting she could come to that and maybe a meal and then leave before the night out. Could be an acceptable compromise?

This thread is so interesting. I respect other people have different opinions. It seems so many women think new mothers must be housebound and ‘sacrifice’ a social life because society can’t possibly accommodate them with their babies. In Britain, it seems, we’ve progressed enough away from the patriarchy for women to now be allowed in pubs. But only if they behave like men and leave their baby at home.

Isn’t a hen do simply good friends getting together? I’m struggling to understand what goes on there to make it unsuitable for a 3 month old baby? Do people think they can’t drink in front of a baby? Can people not relax around babies? You don’t have to fuss over them if you despise them that much. They can be ignored. I understand really loud, packed public venues can pose risks to a baby, but don’t hen dos usually involve other elements, such as restaurants?

And of course I fully accept some new mothers struggle to socialise (with or without their baby) for all sorts of reasons. Their choice. But this thread is about whether it’s reasonable to exclude them from attending with their baby, which (at 3 months) means, in most cases, excluding them entirely.

I’m also struggling to understand the argument a hen do or wedding is so ‘all about the bride’ (or groom) they’d actually want to exclude close friends and family members if they happen to have a young baby. Isn’t the whole point of a celebration being with the people you love and care about? If a best friend is using a wheelchair or visually impaired, would they be excluded because it mattered more to the bride to do an activity they wanted, rather than choosing something their friend could take part in? Of course, being a breastfeeding mother isn’t a disability. But it can feel just as exclusionary.

Again, I fully accept some people would rather attend a wedding without their kids or would find it too stressful to bring them. But it’s not giving people the choice/adults only I’m struggling with. What’s the objection?

If she is breastfeeding she can’t leave a 3 month old more than a few hours and even if not breastfeeding probably wouldn’t want to.

if she is from there is there family who could look after the baby for short periods of time so she can join certain parts without the baby, potentially a couple of parts with the baby and then not join other bits?

If the hen party is a whole weekend/day and night, making a bit for a couple of hours during the day something that she could bring the baby to would be a good compromise

Nobody is saying that at all ,what some people are saying is that the world doesn't revolve around new mothers and babies ,a Hen night is a one off occasion where it just wouldn't be appropriate ( in most cases ) to bring a child
There are plenty of places new mothers csn go to
And why should the Friend gey to dictate the terms of The Op,s hen night anyway?

No. You know having a 3 month old there will change everything.
It's your hen do not hers.
I think you should just do something another time with her.
Don't let her control the show.

...And do you honestly think a new mums group would change all their plans to accommodate someone without a baby ?

why are you asking what a hen do is? have you never been to one?
You're being a bit dramatic, nobody is being excluded. How can you be excluded if you've specifically been invited?

The average birthrate now is about 1.4. So the average woman will be at 'new mother, can't leave baby,' stage for, what about 3-6 months, likely only once in her life, maybe twice. It's not like she's being isolated for the rest of her life. The chances of all her friends getting married within this particular tiny timeslot is minimal. It's hardly unreasonable to expect her to miss out on maybe one or two events in her entire life because her circumstances don't make it feasible to easily attend.

There will be other people who can't come because of multiple other life reasons - work commitments, new job, their own wedding, illness, family commitments, other event already booked, costs etc. You could argue they are being excluded if the hen is too far away/expensive/overnight/on a particular date but it's not - everyone is given an invite, they then choose whether they can attend based on their particular circumstances. It's incredibly rude to instead say 'Well I'll come if you have it on a different place/do something different/if I can bring my mum/baby/husband."

It's not be excluded, it's choosing not to attend. TBH by my mid thirties I'd been to so many hens it's actually a relief to have a good excuse.

It's actually very offensive to compare a disability to breast feeding. A breast feeding mother has options - she can choose to attend the event or part of the event without the baby or not. She can attend all or part of the event while someone else has the baby. She can express milk. If she has someone who can come with her she could leave the party for a short period, feed baby and come back. A disabled person can't just opt out of being disabled, and it's not just for a few months.

Your 'patriarchy' argument is ridiculous as well because the vast majority of time if a woman did leave her baby it would be with their father, thus bucking the traditional gender roles.

put your foot down now OP or you'll end up like this poster
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2998359-AIBU-You-dont-bring-a-toddler-to-a-hen-do

I remember that thread 😁 thrown up a very old username I'd forgotten all about 😁

It isn’t giving people the choice because it isn’t their event. Like you said, breastfeeding isn’t a disability and most 3 month olds are formula fed at that point anyway.

As someone with a disability, I’ve had to turn down invitations to some invites to friends’ events and gatherings over the last few years, as the nature of them couldn’t accommodate my needs and it was impossible to change the event without it being something completely different from what the host wanted. I have complex needs and so I don’t begrudge any of my friends for that. and they’ve always been very kind about it.

This is why I get annoyed when on threads like these, people always end up saying that unless you design every single event or gathering around a new mother, it’s discriminating against her in the same way as discriminating against a disabled person, isolating her to her house forever more, and upholding the patriarchy.

There can be no event to which a baby isn’t welcomed, or you’re a misogynist ableist-adjacent arsehole.

I will be disabled forever and turning down invitations forever. The hosts aren’t discriminating against me, they’re living their lives and entitled to the events they want to have. As long as they’re kind and not huffy with me about it, everything is fine.

It’s only when it’s a new mother that people lose their perspective and start raising disability and the patriarchy and insisting that her needs override absolutely everything else. And being a new mother is a short time in one’s life, which makes it even more ridiculous.

People are allowed to have the events they want, the way they want. It’s not discrimination and it’s not misogyny to not want a baby at your hen do.

I just lost my lunch hour reading both threads from this OP. What a CF that mum was. That would be a friendship ending situation for me. Got to feel sorry for the demanding woman (as she was called in the thread) DP who was obviously lied to by his partner

And for the revelation that the CF mum was a MLM seller just topped it off

I was going to say the same thing. Can have a couple of drinks for sure.

She’s not trying to dictate the terms of the hen night. There’s a day time activity and then a night out. It doesn’t sound like she is planning on attending the night out, she has just asked whether the day time activity (which has not been arranged yet) could be something she could bring the baby to.

If OP doesn’t want to do something baby friendly, or just doesn’t want the baby there, then that’s absolutely her choice and the friend needs to accept that. I don’t think she’s done anything wrong by asking the question though. If OP decides on a baby free hen do and the friend reacts badly, that’s the point at which I think she would be unreasonable.

@another1bitestheduck I’ve been to one hen do. At a public daytime event, with evening entertainment, where there were lots of people with babies and children, though not in the hen party.

Like me, none of my close friends have married, though they’ve lived in couples with children for decades. A few friends are married or in civil partnerships; minimal affairs at register offices and a party afterwards rather than huge formal occasions or hen dos. Like me, they find many of the ‘traditions’ of weddings, e.g. a woman being ‘given away’ by her father to her husband while wearing a virginal white dress, sexist and old fashioned. I’ve also attended quite a few weddings (extended family, family friends) but not been close enough to be invited to a hen do, if there was one.

I realise lots of women feel comfortable with, and indeed love, traditional weddings. I realise that, for some people, ‘the event’ is more important than who’s there with them. I respect their choices. But I do worry that as a society we’re slipping backwards (or perhaps never fully got there) in terms of what’s expected of women, especially when they become mothers, and especially breastfeeding mothers, to their detriment. You may find it dramatic to say a bf mother isn’t excluded if her baby isn’t welcome. I don’t think it is dramatic. It’s why many women struggle to socialise while bf. Because, they feel people disapprove of them having their baby with them or bf in public. And they don’t want to leave them. Why should they?

I explicitly said being a breastfeeding mother isn’t a disability but it can feel just as exclusionary.