Reaching out 🥲

[LoveAlways1]

Hi fellow mums.

This is hard to type. I don’t usually reach out, I have spent my life so far supporting myself and others. I’m usually the one people reach out to. However, I’m going to give this a go, so please be kind.

I have a 16 year old son. We are a small family, just me, his dad and I. We don’t have any family around to help and, despite him having many Godparents, none of them have made any effort at all to be in his life.

He is a clever, talented boy, and isn’t depressed. However, he only brushes his teeth occasionally (about once a week), rarely washes and refuses to cut his hair. It’s very long. I wouldn’t mind this if he looked after it. But he doesn’t.

We (all three of us) have always had a loving, harmonious, supportive relationship, in a peaceful environment (i.e. no trauma, arguments etc).

We love him and care about him very much and we have talked with him about the importance of looking after himself (what will happen if he doesn’t, what will happen if he does etc) many many times but to no avail.
We have tried everything (taking away privileges, rewards etc).

Nothing is working.

His teeth are yellow, his hair is dirty and usually unbrushed, he will probably start smelling soon (he has a bag full of everything I could think of that he might need - electric razor, electric toothbrush, vitamins, face cleanser, shower gel, flannel, sponge comb, brush etc). And we always keep communication open. We are there for him always.

He rarely goes outside and I’m certain he is going to be deficient in vitamin D and other vitamins and nutrients as he doesn’t eat fruits or vegetables. He won’t let us weigh him either. “No” is his favourite word.

When I talk with my partner (his dad) about it he says he has tried talking to him many times but isn’t going to worry about it now as it’s his choice. I get that, but try as I might, I just can’t stop worrying about it! we have one main job - to keep him healthy. I feel like we are failing and I just don’t know what to do.

Please can anyone offer some advice that they have found to have worked?

Thank you x

I’d like to second previous poster’s suggestions about animals helping him find ways to connect to other living beings in person (not just online/on the phone); the sensory connection of physical touch, care and responsibility for an animal is very powerful.

If you can somehow engineer for him to help at an animal shelter, rescue or small farm for example?

It sounds like he is spending a lot of time indoors, not moving as much as a growing young person needs to - spending time with animals outside brings all of these benefits, without them being the main goal.

It might take a while to find places, and also possibly several attempts to get him to go, but my goodness it will be worth it.

another thought is if a neighbour has a dog that “needs walking” - could you appeal to his caring side, to take the dog out for the dog’s sake. Perhaps the neighbour could be ‘in’ on this ruse.

Anyway, there are lots of different ways to do this, but I hope my post sparks an idea or two.

You sound like a wonderful caring parent and I wish you all the best x

Just because your brother did it doesn't mean it's a sign of autism. It's also a sign of poor social skills and not realising what is and isn't socially acceptable.

A sign of poor social skills and not recognising what’s acceptable is (typically) autism though. Bit odd to say it doesn’t mean ASD then go on to say it could be something that describes autism to a tee.

As for the American accent, as other have pointed out it is something children with autism can pick up. It’s part of echolalia, and gestational language processing can be speaking in phrases rather than typical/natural communication methods. Does he often quote from tv shows or similar that he enjoys as a means to communicate feelings rather than outwardly say what’s on his mind @LoveAlways1 ?

You say your nephew has been diagnosed with autism, is that on your side or his dad’s? Is it possible that autism is hereditary in your family?

Would he like doing something like volunteering at a cats protection or rspca? At least get him out of the house and he may then be ‘forced’ into the hygiene as he’ll be seeing people/need a shower after being in with the cats?

Hi OP. I've read maybe a third of the thread so sorry if I've missed anything. My male colleague, during the lockdown, developed a fungal infection because he went from showering every day to showering once or twice a week! But anyway, your son certainly isn't a lost cause, and - like you say, he isn't depressed. He isn't lying in bed all day or unresponsive; he's doing things and interested in things, even if at the moment this is only taking place in the online world. It's great that he is singing and laughing every day - this bodes well for whatever comes next. And it sounds like he's done well at school. I knew a few people, my brother included, who were somewhat scruffy, odd, and had no social skills at 16. These went to the sixth form, where they formed friendships with similar people and moved their life forward. I also see certain small 'gangs' from college who are scruffy, with long hair etc. I'm sure he'll find some friends. From what I've heard from my brother who works in IT, I would also jokingly but hesitatingly say that he sounds like he'd fit right in with IT workers! Obviously the key is either college or work in person, regularly leaving the house. This would also hopefully cut down on the time he spends online, if this is a problem. It's also a positive that he's great on the phone. This means he can converse with people, in college or in work. In my 'year out' at university, aged 21, I was terribly shy on the phone - I would avoid answering it. Does he have plans what to do next? Is he bored at home? It's a pity he can't be made to realise that it's not healthy to never go out and live his life online, if that's what he's doing. If he could be made to project forward and visualise things if the status quo is maintained. Anyway, it's great that he's willing to look through college brochures. Encourage him to do so by himself as well. I think there's potential for change once he starts getting out into the world. If you think he is seriously willing to go out to college, I perhaps wouldn't worry too much about having him assessed for ADHD and autism if you think that might hinder things. I don't know enough about these things to advise. He did well at school, which some children with ADHD struggle with. Or maybe he's your typical autistic mad professor. Having said that, I've heard that the waiting times for these assessments can be a couple of years, or even on hold, depending where you live, so maybe just getting in the queue might be an option. And maybe something, being so far in the future, that he'll agree to with less resistance. Anyway, I think this can be a key turning point in his life. Good luck.

I just wanted to second this! @ohdaisydaisy you are spot on. Autism is a huge spectrum and can present so differently in every individual.

@LoveAlways1 Please do more research on ASD and look at PDA. You sound like a brilliant mum. Well done for reaching out. xx

Because the point I'm trying to make is, if we never corrected children or told or taught them what is or isn't acceptable, and they aren't around other children or teachers to tell and show them as well, how do children know what's right?

He has poor social skills because he isn't around other children or teenagers and his mum is allowing him to talk in an accent that he doesn't actually have.

You can't just say oh he probably has autism because he has poor hygiene and poor social skills, when there are very clear reasons why he has those poor skills. He has poor hygiene because he doesn't ever leave the house, because he has no reason to and probably has low self esteem due to having no friends. And he has poor social skills because of the same reasons, plus he's allowed to communicate in a strange way.

The OP has said numerous times she doesn't believe her son is autistic. Obviously she can't diagnose herself but neither can anyone in the internet just from reading a few posts.

@LoveAlways1 thank you for your reply.

I'm glad he is able to go to the GP for blocked ear - did your DS wash himself before going? Was this particular GP aware of his various refusals? So sorry they haven't been able to help you, but it seems like he is happy at home.

How about going on holiday and have a complete change of scenery? Where you'd make yourselves go out for meals and you would all have a shower before you go out? Or how about arranging to visit your close friends or family for a day? Someone who he might feel comfortable with (and be willing to look nice for)?

Sadly you and your partner may not be around for him forever.

I watched a documentary about "hikikomoris" in Japan - young people who isolate themselves from society for extended periods, rarely leaving homes or interacting with others outside immediate family, and apparently it is extremely common there.

I am not saying your DS is the same, but you might find it interesting if you look it up.

Thank you, I appreciate that 🫶

My guess is that he wouldn’t be open to it, but I’d love him to do that so I will suggest it xx

Hi OP, unless you know the signs of autism you can easily miss lots of them. Most people know the stereotypical things but it varies a lot from person to person and there are a lot of subtle signs that you may not pick up on as being traits of autism. Many autistic people are very empathic, many are sociable, enjoy hugs etc. So it’s not as straightforward as you might think.

My DS has asd and getting him to wash is problematic too. Dropped out of school, lives life online etc. It is something worth considering definitely. It also runs in families.

The usual type of parenting (taking away tech etc) often doesn’t work for neurodiverse (ND) children or teens. That’s normal. It’s a whole other parenting ballgame really. People who are parenting children who are neurotypical (NT) often give the parents of ND kids the wrong advice on these sorts of threads, because they are not familiar enough with autism etc. You learn to ignore a lot of well-meaning but irrelevant and sometimes unhelpful advice (or censure!).

As I said, it’s something worth considering at least.

All the armchair diagnosing of autism on here and most people seem to be ignoring that this young person was very badly bullied and has been sexually assaulted at school.

I am autistic and a mental health professional and I'm the first to challenge people who dismiss neurodivergence and say it's all trauma. Gabor Mate can absolutely get tae fuck. But this young man has been through 2 years of trauma and that is relevant to the behaviours he is now displaying. Especially as OP can't identify any autistic traits in childhood before the bullying and SA.

Yes, autism is a possibility, as there are some behaviours that can be associated with autistic distress and sensory aversions, but it is not the only possibility here. Autism is not just "poor social skills" or poor hygiene, or being "scruffy and odd" (FFS, these stereotypes!) and speaking in an American accent does not equal autism either. I would therefore stress the importance of a proper assessment by a qualified professional in order to understand the issues and access appropriate support.

Of course, if he is autistic, that's perfectly okay. But the correct diagnosis matters, and it is just as harmful to be incorrectly diagnosed as it is to go your whole life not knowing why things are more difficult for you than everyone else.

Hi OP,

I'm ASD and I've been reading through all your posts and pondering. My son is homeschooled too.

One of the things that strikes me is that if I think way back 40-odd years, I actually went through a period of not brusing my teeth or hair at all too. I was quite scruffy and my friends made fun of me at school, but I still carried on the same.

The lack of self-care wasn't because I was depressed or anything. I just really really couldn't cope with the pain of the toothbrushing and hair brushing. It really really hurt a lot.

With the teeth it was because mint toothpaste burned my gums really badly. I did once get lemon toothpaste which was find and I liked it. Unfortunately it was expensive and my Mum thought I only liked it for the free toy, so refused to buy it again. I didn't dare tell her that I couldn't use the mint stuff at all. The pain stopped when I was 14 and then I started brushing my teeth every day.

The hair thing was harder. My hair got really tangly and it hurt to brush it. I also struggled with washing because the soap got in my eyes. It was a bit easier after we got a shower and then I could make sure the soap went down the back.

I think if I could have had short hair like a boy, it would have been easier.

My son struggles with hair washing very much, and I think the water sort of burns the top of his head and his face. We have to try very very hard to make the process comfortable for him and the same with hair cutting.

We got very good hair clippers that are almost silent and he is kind of okay with that, but only just.

You can also buy really good sharp hair cutting scissors from Boots that are silent, but you have to be really careful with them.

Is that any help at all? Basically the idea is that you need to assume that these self-care things are actually painful, and work out how to reduce the pain. That's an ASD thing.

Good luck there. I'm sorry things are hard. You and your DH sound lovely. Your son sounds wonderful too.

Saying something is worth considering is not diagnosing someone @CrazyGoatLady

Worth considering, yes. But some people here seem to be pretty convinced and a little tunnel visioned about it to the exclusion of other information provided.

My son is 27 now and believe me we had the smelly, lazy teenage years. He soon started showering everyday when girls would show up.

I understand this is completely different for your son. I personally have PDA as part of my autism and now I have a disability and rarely leave the house, I must admit my hygiene isn't the best. The thought of having a shower seems such hard work... I do have professionals keeping an eye on me, and I'll shower if Im seeing someone or going out somewhere - usually family, always accompanied.

Anyway, enough about me being minging. I would skip the GP at this point and go straight to Children's Services (Social Services). In my case they're actually very supportive people. Very knowledgeable and can give you support as well as your son.
Definitely make it a mission to go out every day. He sounds lovely with his singing etc. Does he like nature? A walk somewhere quiet with just the birds and the trees...
Keep on with looking at colleges. There's nothing to stop you just going to look at one and have a wander in the public spaces rather than a stressful timed appointment.
There is CAMHS but as my GP told me regarding my now 15 year old daughter - she'd probably be in Uni by the time they saw her, so we use the pastoral support at school. That's going well.

Unfortunately you don't have that access, so I really do recommend reaching out to Child Services for support for your son and maybe gaining a better understanding for you both as parents.

Tricky time! No shame in asking for help in navigating it.

There’s a company called ieso - some nhs trusts you can self refer, some you need to get a doctor to refer. But it’s online and they’re really great. Well worth looking into.

OP, hopefully what I’m about to say won’t ever be relevant to you, but the combination of:

• isolation
• no real-life interactions with peers
• ordinary physical puberty
• having suffered series of assaults, some sexual
• extensive unfettered internet use

strikes me as a recipe for being a victim of online sexual abuse, or (God forbid) becoming a perpetrator because those ordinary teenage hormones, desire and early sexual feelings have nowhere to go when he’s at home with just his mum and dad and it could all get very confused for him. I really think you need to pay close attention to what he’s doing online and try to get him back out in the world as soon as possible, in a gradual and affirming / reassuring way.

Sorry if you've already answered this but is your son able to tell you why he doesn't want to brush his teeth, shower, look after his nails and hair? Most of us do these things because we understand they are important for health and make us feel good. Does he keep his room clean and tidy/let you into his room?

You mentioned a college prospectus. Have you talked about what he wants to do in the future? What would be his ideal job? From that you might be able to help him plan how he will get there. He loves singing, does he like performing, would he like to go to concerts/theatre? He likes online gaming, would he like to go to conventions, study gaming, study computing?

I used to speak in an American accent because I watched a lot of US TV when I was younger. Especially at times when I was in the same social situations that I saw in the programmes. All my friends did the same at some point. Your accent doesn't become fixed until 19 I think.

There is a balance here. 16 is usually a time developmentally where you do rebel against your parents world to fit in with a different social crowd. Considering he seems to be very compliant with your wishes, is this is way of setting a standard and asserting himself.

He isn't massively social, so I guess in his mind there is no actual reason to wash. My brother was like this for a while, because he couldn't smell himself. We all told him, but it was when his friends said something that he listened.

I agree with people saying to send him to college. He has to learn to be independent at some point and this will really help him.

I think homeschooling is causing him to be isolated and therefore depressed. I work from home sometimes and it really is isolating and depressing for me. I need to meet people on real life and I suspect most people do including him. Socialising will make him want to fit in. I would look hard at 6th form options and at least encourage socialising outside the home including sports and group activities.

I am in my 50s and only just starting to realise I am autistic after a lifetime of masking. All the comments about autism may not be any help as everyone is different. I also have anxiety and MH illnesses and have suffered from depression, I’m not sure how you can honestly tell if your son is or is not depressed tbh as until I had a breakdown I think I would have been put in the category of happy chatty person….once again I was masking and noone had a clue. But autism and mental health illnesses can be different for everyone and different depending upon your gender as well.

I do think a chat with a gp would be a good thing, but you mentioned he saw one three days ago so the gp would have seen the lack of cleanliness already? Just take him along for an annual checkup or something? Also a psychologist/therapy could possibly help to try to understand if there is an underlying problem that he’s not told you about. I suffered a sexual assault as a teenager and yeah putting on weight, not as nice clothes, etc can also be linked to that as you are trying to protect yourself.

So it could be a combination of any of these things or he could just be being a typical teenager. Boys started getting clean suddenly when they mix more with their peers or if they like someone. Maybe your son is still at that stage as he’s not mixing with peers in the real world.

I think trying to get your son to go out more, in any way doing anything, would be great. The fact that he’s interested in college is also brilliant.

Also might not be any help but start asking him which shower gel he likes or which bubble bath. And so on. And then start buying ones he likes. If he doesn’t know take him out shopping to choose some, also gets him out of the house. I’m not good with many fragrances or smells (or strong noises or lights) so I pick things which are lightly fragranced myself, some of the stuff the members of my family use are so strong I find it overwhelming and leave the room. Also get different toothpastes, I’ve just used a mint one that’s stronger than normal for me and an hour later I’m still feeling sick tbh. But there are a lot on the market that aren’t mint and I recently used a sensodyne toothpaste that was a herbal one, much better for me. It’s possible these things may also be hoe your son feels.

I hope your sons life starts improving x

The only advice I would give you, OP, is to get your boy assessed for ASD/Neurodivergence now, whilst he is still under 18. Right now is the only time in your life where you can override his wants and his dislikes and insist, because you are his parent and he is a minor.

He may well end up going to college and if he does so without a formal diagnosis he will miss out on all the extra help and support that he will need and which could massively benefit him. Even if it is just that his quirks are understood and tolerated rather than becoming disciplinary issues.

He is going to be an adult very, very soon. Once he is 18 he can carry on saying No to everything and no-one, not you, not his Uni, not anyone can make him, even when it is for his own benefit - for example he can neglect his teeth and lose them all. But it is more than that - he can lose his job because he smells and speaks in an American accent even if he does the actual job incredibly well, and there is no legal right to 'reasonable adjustment' if he has no diagnosis. He can refuse his whole life to get a diagnosis and he can refuse his whole life to get any help...

This is what happened to a young relative of mine because his parents thought that a diagnosis would be putting a label on their perfectly healthy but quirky son and that the label would be defining and limiting. They simply did not understand - I think personally, that paradoxically it was because they were afraid for him - that they were condemning their son to a lifetime of struggle with no support. And god knows, the support for the Neurodivergent is little enough even with a diagnosis.

This is a fantastic video by a young lad of 18 explaining what his PDA is like. What is so striking is the degree of intelligent insight he has into himself and his PDA self, and yet, he cannot change anything about how he is. This is I think, a real eye-opener into how truly disabling ASD is to the person who has it. We only see the effects and results of what is a profound difficulty for them.

Neurodivergence can be really hard to recognise, when you are high functioning and undiagnosed yourself, and likely your partner may be the same. Your child and the way the interact socially with others seems totally normal because it's your normal. Or you see it as their normal, therefore normal.

I think taking into account he is 16, taking no interest in personal hygiene and not responding to tough love is a sign your son is an outlier to the norm.

I am late diagnosed ADHD, when things get tough for me, showering and teeth brushing are things I struggle with. I also struggled to enforce my kids to have good habits because habits are so hard for me anyway. At 15, my older son now realises the importance of personal hygiene and I don't need to remind him to shower at all.

For his teeth, could you look at incorporating xylitol gum after meals, as that may be easier for him than brushing? Just read up on it because there is supposed to be an optimum amount of time you chew the gum to generate the right amount of the protective saliva, and an optimum number of grams per day.

Talking in an American accent can be a sign of autism. My husband and I both teach and we have seen autistic students do this. I'm not sure why.

To me it looks like your son has fallen into what is for him a very comfortable lifestyle without much routine. Without the structures of school or work it has become easy to not bother with what most of us would consider 'normal'. He might be neurodivergent, he might just be a lazy teen. I also wonder if he is struggling with his identity, sexuality or anything like that?

I think a college course would be really beneficial to him if would be open to this. Or maybe a part time job? I do understand how hard this all must be, but I also agree that tough love may end up being the only answer. I say this because I have a family member who has been allowed to avoid anything he finds uncomfortable, dropped out of school, quite jobs etc. He is now in his 30s, still at home, no qualifications, no job, no friends, never had a relationship and when his parents eventually pass away he will likely become homeless. Everyone has been too scared to force anything in him incase his mental health becomes worse, but the end result is he has no life and no means to support himself.

It is a good thing that you are questioning his lifestyle as it definitely is not ok. It's good that you want to address this. You clearly love him very much and are trying to do the right thing for him.

He sounds very similar to my Son (Who is autistic and has combined type ADHD). He struggled with school from about the age of 8. Mostly managed primary school, but hated secondary. Limped through his GCSEs on about 60% attendance (we are not in a position to home school) and went to a small independent school for A levels. Did absolutely no work, but because he is naturally clever, passed three A levels and has a place in University for September 2025.Currrently, we don't think he will manage University, but he isn't medicated for his ADHD yet - we have only just had the diagnosis.

He almost never cleans his teeth, we have had several rows off the dentist and orthodontist about this over the years (We have sweated blood and cried tears trying to get him to do this and I have probably bought every toothbrush known to man - no dice). Currently, he sees a dental hygienist every 3 months and this is probably what stops his teeth rotting. He never shaves (but does like to have his hair cut - I think he just can't stand the feel of hair around his neck and in his face). He does shower, but I think he likes the feel of the warm water and also loves to sing in the shower (He's a very good singer), but he will only use certain showers. He has hardly left the house since he finished his A levels and then usually only because we make him. He eats only beige food.

He is taking a gap year to supposedly get a job (to improve his personal and executive functioning skills) and to learn to drive. He has done nothing and is happy to sleep for 12 hours a day! We have written a CV for him and applied for a few jobs on his behalf. He has passed his driving theory but doesn't seem in a hurry to get any driving lessons.

Having said that, he is the most lovely human being. He has an amazing sense of humour and an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of reptiles/birds of prey/musicals. He loves musical theatre and is quite an accomplished performer (Singing/musical theatre are the only things he will leave the house for!).

He was diagnosed late and I would love for him to flourish during his gap year and manage his degree

I think two things might make him change.
He gets a partner. He will be in the bathroom for ages then.
Somebody outside the house tells him he smells or something.
His teeth must be in an awful state. He will create much longer term problems for himself if he dosent get into a good teeth cleaning routine.