To stop my 83 year old parents driving 200 miles on Christmas Eve

[BeGladHedgehog]

DH and I live 200 miles away from my parents. Have done for years. Parents now 83 years old. DM no longer drives due to health issues but DF continues to. DH and I are unable to travel anywhere this Christmas (long story). I have invited my parents to ours for Christmas but I have asked them to please take the train rather than drive. DF insists that he will drive and refuses to take the train. DF is insisting that he will drive himself and DM down on Christmas Eve, spend Christmas Day with us and drive back on Boxing Day. I think this is unnecessarily risky at age 83, particularly when the roads are busy and they will no doubt be tired. I’ve expressed my concern and said that I’m very sorry but I can’t let them do that and I can only agree to the arrangement if they agree to take a train. My parents think I’m being ridiculous. For context my sibling regularly invites DM and DF to their house which is c.60 miles away. They travel there and back (ie 120 miles) in one day, on a motorway, often driving back at night). My sister thinks is fine. I would never ask them to do this as I think it’s too risky.

Am I being unreasonable?

He's a grown man. YANBU to be worried at all but YABU to be infantilising and patronising.

Trains will also be a nightmare on those days. Can't he just watch the football at yours? Or wouldn't you allow that either?

Let them both do what they want but I'd offer to your mum if she wants to stay an extra couple of nights and get the train home she's more than welcome.

I don't get why he can't watch the football on your telly or him and DH go to the pub for a couple of hours on Boxing Day.

But ultimately it's his choice.

I think you are not being at all unreasonable in not wanting them to do it, but I suppose you can't stop him driving. How is his driving generally? An 83yo may be an adequate driver in good light on a dry, quiet toad they are familiar with on a shortish journey. 200 miles in one day in the depths of winter, probably less than ideal driving conditions on one of the busiest traffic days of the year - not great, for them or potentially other road users.

I cannot believe anyone other than the most exceptional 83yo has the reflexes to cope and react in sufficient time to a sudden change in traffic conditions at speed. The concentration needed to drive 200 miles is significant and draining. There will obviously be many younger motorists who are just as ill equipped for a journey like this, but the risk of incompetence due to health and infirmity rises with advancing age.

It is well overdue that people be automatically assessed by a GP, electronic driving simulator, something, anything that is not the current self declaration exercise. It's a waste of time. People don't want to admit they are past it and give up their independence. I understand why. But it's other people who pay the price. Couldn't get my dad to surrender his license and her knew he wasn't up to driving. Argued he only went for shopping locally and visiting. Said buses jangled his back. etc.etc.

We nearly lost my relative recently when she was struck by an elderly lady at the wheel of a gigantic SUV (husband bought it for "safety features") at 50+mph in a residential street. She lost control. I expect she won't drive again after her prosecution. By luck my relative was in a volvo - after viewing footage police said she'd have been really seriously hurt or killed if she'd been travelling in a small car. Now, she was hurt, is laid up but luckily it is not life changing injuries. Also by luck there were no pedestrians as school holidays.

300 miles is a drive of 5 hours which is a lot. They are going to be exhausted on arrival.
This is significantly more tiring than 1h each way to visit your sister.
I share your concern but if they won't see it there isn't a lot you can do, unless there is an attraction part way that you could all do on Christmas Eve, forcing them to set off the day before?

Is your dad going to a match or watching it on a screen? Can you get a subscription to watch the game?

It’s a tricky one. My brother lives a good 3hrs drive away (he moved away in his teens) my parents visit them every Christmas because they always do a Christmas Eve activity together. My parents are in their mid 70’s and very fit and capable but I do worry about them doing all the driving. My brother and his family never come here for Christmas and I do feel like it puts the pressure on my parents. I wouldn’t tell them they can’t drive there though - they definitely wouldn’t thank me for that!

Can you travel down and pick them up or sibling collect them and bring them up

Re the trains being busy we would pay for my parents to travel first class :

Sorry but this is a touch naive to assume this would make it ok. Often first class is not available or is removed from the service at short notice to accommodate extra travellers ( especially if some trains are cancelled ) Seat reservations are sometimes suspended so in reality not a solution you can rely on for Christmas Eve, Been there myself at a much younger age than my 80’s and it’s no fun when this happens

We do that sort of drive to visit my partner’s family and are always exhausted the following week and we are 40 years younger than them and split the driving!

My partner’s dad who is about 7/8 years younger than your parents says he is exhausted after the drive but is equally stubborn re getting the train (though it’s mainly because the stations don’t align so it would involve going in and out of London and putting his car in long term parking etc). Could they come earlier? Are there internal flights - an old colleague with health issues used to fly relatively short distances.

You really can't just go on his age, though.

Of course it's true that our faculties start to recede as we get older, but that doesn't make us useless or unsafe - especially when balanced with the decades of driving experience.

Many people very necessarily stop driving when they get to 80-ish, but many don't - and absolutely don't need to stop. On the other hand, look at the many threads on here where people in their 20s or 30s are too scared to learn; or they have passed a test, but are too terrified to actually drive anywhere.

Maybe it's a bit like computers and the Internet. Many people in their 80s can't/don't/don't want to use them; however lots still do. In fact, the computer technology that we enjoy now as standard is largely thanks to pioneers who will now be at least approaching that age, if they're still with us.

Imagine somebody telling 75yo Ray Tomlinson before he died in 2016 that he was almost certainly useless with computers, owing to his age; or indeed telling 69yo Tim Berners-Lee now that computing will all have passed him by and maybe his grandkids can explain it all to him in very simple terms!

Not to mention Ada Lovelace in the early 1800s - clearly clueless, her being a woman and all that!

I remember a TV programme from quite a few years back about some of Britain's oldest drivers - all of them in their 90s. There was one woman who only drove 14 miles A YEAR (very slowly and quite erratically) to the hairdresser and back; but there was also a 95yo chap who was a racing driver - and in his regular races against men who were 50, 60 or 70 years younger than him, he usually finished mid-table.

@Needanewname42 @TwinklyNight

Not all football matches are on TV, depends who you support, hth

This is MNs and for some reason people can’t accept the reality that someone at 83 might have slower reflexes & be tired doing such a long journey.

Good luck OP. My parents are slightly older than yours and if I suggested they shouldn't drive anywhere there would be mayhem. They would go absolutely mad.

If there’s a train running on schedule then, no matter the age, it’s better to take this.

I happen to agree with your general point about technology and age. But I will say that computers aren’t going to harm anyone in the same way that a car can… unless one electrocutes oneself or others!

Might. Exactly.

At 83, he's an adult and gets to decide for himself. Not to be told what to do like a child.

Does the UK not have annual medicals for driving licences to be renewed? Here once you are over 75yo you need a sign off from your doctor ( mainly the opthamologist) and from 85yo you have to pass a practical driving test.
If your DH has the all clear then he can drive. I think the idea of a stopover at least one way is a good idea.
The soccer sounds like he wants to watch it on the TV which surely you can facilitate.
Is meeting halfway at all possible? They could park in a long stay parking lot and get in your car, then the reverse on the way home.

It would probably be more dangerous for them to look at the price of train tickets, they'd have heart attacks on the spot.

We have to renew our licences every 1, 2 or 3 years if we have certain health conditions - depending on the condition and the severity of it - and this also kicks in regardless if your 'condition' is 'being over 70'.

A family member had a particular pertinent health condition (from a very young age) and then also reached the age of 70.

Once he was over 70, the checks and GP tests became more stringent and regular, to the extent that, every year, he found it so thorough that he wondered whether he should just surrender his licence regardless - and indeed he did just that at 79, once a few relatively minor, but cumulative, 'things' also kicked in.

We don't ever have to retake an actual test, purely by dint of automatically having reached a certain age - this is usually only ordered after you lose your licence for a period through dangerous driving, once that period has passed.

Personally, I think that is fair - considering how many younger people frequently say that they would probably not pass after driving for however long; BUT the main idea of passing a test is based on you being a new and inexperienced driver and an unknown quantity.

Once you have been driving for several years, you likely do get somewhat complacent and take some calculated risks in your driving - but this is obviously also balanced out by your experience, so not necessarily 'dangerous' per se.

One thing that I do think is outrageous - disgusting, really - is that drivers are not legally required to have their eyes tested regularly if they are under 70 and don't have any notifiable health conditions.

When the topic has arisen, people I know well have insisted that their eyesight is "fine", and haven't had their eyes tested for, in one case, decades.

Of course, it's the sight equivalent of Mrs Twit's walking stick - where great change can be so gradual over a long time that you wouldn't notice it - and no amount of horror or strong urging on my part that having your eyes tested at the very very least once every five years might be very wise indeed amounts to anything at all, it's just brushed off.

I reckon some people must also know that their eyesight has deteriorated and deliberately don't get it tested, in case they risk losing (or restrictions to) their licence.

Personally, I think it's pointless and utterly stupid to have such stringent procedures in place for those with ceetain health conditions and then to allow somebody to pass a very basic eyesight test at 17 and then not be required to take another one for potentially 53 years, when surely everybody's eyesight will change dramatically - usually not for the better - in that half-century.

What's the point in having your car tested for roadworthiness every year when the driver could be half-blind and in denial or deliberately keeping quiet about it?

It depends on the drive I think. Where do you live? I live a similar drive from my parents but it's over the moors and fells so unlit, dark, bad winter weather. To drive the same distance to my sister is just straight down a motorway so pretty easy. The two can't be compared.

OP, I share your concern. I have the exact same issue with my parents on a regular basis. Their driving is not what it used to be.

Knowing what you know about your DF why did you invite them? Why do they have to come to you?

Is your DM happy for him to drive? If not she shouldn’t come in the car with him? If not then she shouldn’t.

Seriously, call their & your local cab company & ask for best price. I was able to negotiate a good price for a long distance like this over Xmas period. They’ll arrive more relaxed & you could split with sibling who isn’t paying to host or food.