Difficult situation with sister and nephew

[Sunshineandalltherainbows]

I feel really bad even writing this but I am finding my 4 year old nephew absolutely impossible to be around. His behaviour is poor. My sister must be struggling, says she isn't and it's all normal boy behaviour bit it's not. She often will say he's only 4. When he was she used to say he's only 3.

It's having a huge impact on my family's relationship with her.

For example, it was my son's birthday (who has asd) and we were all eating birthday cake round my parents. My nephew grabbed my son's cake of his plate put it in his mouth and then spat it out on my son's plate. I said that's disgusting don't ever do that again. My son was in tears about it as he hates any form of contamination if his stuff. My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism. I'm not being funny but anyone regards of needs would have been bothered about that happening to their food.

We've now been asked about Christmas plans and I just don't want to be around my sister and nephew. He constantly breaks things on purpose and laughs, hits everyone, shouts and screams when told no by parents as my sister never says no.

My parents are struggling too as they don't like their things getting broken.

If I ever mention anything to my sister about his behaviour she becomes extremely defensive but I just can't stand their company at the moment and I feel terrible for saying that. Not sure what to do further but limiting contact seems for the best at the moment.

I take what you say on board and will think more carefully about what i say next time. I didn't raise my voice or say it aggressively at all - I was shocked to be honest. It was disgusting and that is a word he understands. I don't want him to do it again.

No, kids don't do disgusting stuff.
Some kids do

That behaviour wouldn't have occurred to my DC or DGC

It’s better that he hears it from a calm adult, than the upset child hitting him! If he annoys an older child at school, he could get injured.

The sister and BIL need to teach their child to stop behaving like a little shit.

well here is one of the reasons it is so impossible to have a fun day out in the UK.

I will always tell a child off for pushing into me, pushing past me, whatever, if I'm in a café and their parent isn't doing their job. ALWAYS. All the children in our family are brought up by all the other people in our family, if the parent is not there or ignores bad behaviour? one of the other adults will do it. And, most likely, pull that parent aside and tell them to pay more attention.

OP, I'll echo others. Invite your parents for Christmas day breakfast. Tell them the invitation is not extended to sister and DN and why. Also your mum needs to be more onside with your dad and firmer with your sister and the child. And, uncomfortable as it is, you need to make it clear to your sister that you are avoiding contact with her child and why. (and also make time for you and your DCs to have time with your parents)

I don't know how many 4 year-olds you know, but that behaviour is not usual.

And you are saying to put all the onus on the OP's DC to have his day and time managed when he hasn't done anything wrong!

Yes, I agree the 4 year-old will want to blow the candles but spitting all over the cake isn't normal and his mother should have intervened

Why are people saying that you are wrong for saying that’s disgusting? I would have said the same thing, because it is! The whole point is, is that no one says no and then he has poor behaviour! If he was 2 and doing it, that’s very different. At 4 he should know better. You were very good not to shout!!

Please don't!

That's one poster with a totally opposite and unrealistic opinion to nearly everyone else!

You were perfectly appropriate

It's just the people who can't control their own children saying that. The sensible folks know it's nonsense.

@neepsa agreed. It is aggressive. There are better ways of handling that so he learns - and isn't shamed, especially as the boy is also certainly ND.

So, the nephew is 100% Autistic, possibly also ADHD. This makes it a whole other ball game.
Does sister realise I wonder? Accepting this and having him assessed would be a huge step towards changing things.
Does this ever come up in conversation?

Not much you can do if you approach things differently, don't enjoy his company and feel sister won't parent in a way you'd like around your own.

I would personally introduce a discussion regards ADHD/ ASD etc with her. But if you have no capacity or space for that, that's understandable. You can only have some distance for a while so you're less bothered.

Sister is probably tearing her hair out with all this at home.

No way on God's earth would MIL or FIL have said anything and it wasn't my place.

i don't get this attitude. It is everyone's place if a child isn't being parented, if it is annoying/endangering other people or itself: it is each and every one of us place to point that out and get it stopped.

I was surprised on my last visit to the uk to have put my arm out to prevent a child (about 6) running across a crossing, against the lights, with a car coming - the parent told me to wind my neck in. a parent who was 50 yards away strapping a smaller child into a buggy with no care/thought what the older child was doing. I said something like "you're welcome for us not having to scrape him off the front of that Toyota" and walked off. But i'd do it again in a heartbeat.

It is disgusting though. Serious illnesses can be spread through spitting. Children need to be taught not to do it and OP needs to protect her child from potential illnesses when someone else spits food out onto his plate.

In an adult, spitting at someone can be a criminal offence. Someone needs to tell the nephew that spitting is not acceptable whilst he is still young enough to listen

It doesn't matter if she gets defensive. She's not more important than your child.

re the cake, if she said it didn't matter and it's not a problem you should have told her to eat it then.

@Tittat50

So, the nephew is 100% Autistic

Where did you get this information? I can't see it anywhere.

It's clear as absolute day to me.

It always is on these forums.

No I don't think being ASD/ADHD means you're a bad person or unpleasant etc etc.

So you just made it up then?

I don’t understand a bit what was wrong about you saying this. It was phrased appropriately- “that’s disgusting”. Not “You’re disgusting”.

If a young child does something disgusting why can't you tell them it's disgusting? I can never get my head around this. If my kids do something naughty I tell them - that's naughty. I might not tell them off but I always tell them! Why is that bad?

Yeah sounds good to me 👍

My nephew hasn't been diagnosed with anything. I have had this conversation with my sister as one of my children is autistic and I know it can run in families. She was very defensive said definitely not he's a normal boy.

All I know is that both my children one ND and one NT I still both when things were right and wrong and I would correct undesirable behavioir. I've been there through some really hard times but always expected respect.

My sister may decide there is something more to my nephews behaviour but until she starts setting boundaries it is hard to know what is going on. As said previously I will always be there for my sister and help her but when she is refusing to engage in any discussions I need some space at Christmas in particular.

I'll never understand someone saying "he's only 3 / 4" etc then using that as a reason not to correct bad behaviour. A 4 yo running around shouting, being disrespectful, hitting etc needs to be clearly told that behaviour is unacceptable. They don't necessarily need to be 'punished' or shouted at depending on context, but they won't learn good behaviour by magic. The behaviour may be fairly typical for someone of their age in a way it wouldn't be for an older child but they are never going to become that well behaved, happy older child if someone doesn't teach them how to act around others before bad behaviour becomes an unbreakable habit.

At the end of the day it's my sisters choice on how to parent her child not mine but it doesn't mean I can't find it all frustrating.

I'd love to be able to go to my parents house with my kids on my own but that can't happen and I have to accept that so was why I am thinking of how to manage a way forward.

I hope it will improve because I love my sister and nephew and we've always been a really close family.

but when her child's actions affect one of your children, or you, you are perfectly legitimately right to tell that child to stop it.
It is utterly batshit to think that it is not ok to tell a child that spitting food on someone's plate is disgusting. it IS disgusting.

Ask him or her if they would think it funny if you did that to their cake.

@Ozanj nobody, apart from you, has said anything about the nephew being evil. The kid isn't being told consistently that his behaviour isn't acceptable. As a result he runs riot. Being unpleasant to others needs nipping in the bud.

You can't just make things up. You can say that from your experience, the 4 year old is showing autistic traits or behaviour but you can't say that 100% he is autistic.

The OP's son actually has autism diagnosis which is one of the reasons he was so upset, but for some posters, all the sympathy is going to the badly-behaved cousin.

I wouldn't worry about calling it disgusting. I've said much worse to my own and other kids who were ia handful 😬

The thing is that you don't have warm fluffy feeling towards him and so part of that is you just losing it inside over the 100th thing he's probably done.

It is understandable and human to have negative feelings even about children when they're like this. I think when you have negative feelings and then say it's disgusting it's very obvious to the kid ( who probably isn't liked much by anyone) what the intent is. Not your fault OP. It is triggering watching this behaviour.

If your sister looked at the ADHD/ASD possibility ( which is really screaming out here), it really could change everything for her, for him. She can't enjoy parenting in this situation and because he's probably a bit of a nightmare alot at home, she's letting alot of stuff go that really needs be addressed.

As a fellow ASD/ADHD mum, once you work with it properly, it changes everything. Unfortunately the kids can be unlikeable and illicit strong feelings in adults until it's acknowledged ( their difference) and they're parented differently. It's so stressful for all of you, little boy here included.