Difficult situation with sister and nephew

[Sunshineandalltherainbows]

I feel really bad even writing this but I am finding my 4 year old nephew absolutely impossible to be around. His behaviour is poor. My sister must be struggling, says she isn't and it's all normal boy behaviour bit it's not. She often will say he's only 4. When he was she used to say he's only 3.

It's having a huge impact on my family's relationship with her.

For example, it was my son's birthday (who has asd) and we were all eating birthday cake round my parents. My nephew grabbed my son's cake of his plate put it in his mouth and then spat it out on my son's plate. I said that's disgusting don't ever do that again. My son was in tears about it as he hates any form of contamination if his stuff. My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism. I'm not being funny but anyone regards of needs would have been bothered about that happening to their food.

We've now been asked about Christmas plans and I just don't want to be around my sister and nephew. He constantly breaks things on purpose and laughs, hits everyone, shouts and screams when told no by parents as my sister never says no.

My parents are struggling too as they don't like their things getting broken.

If I ever mention anything to my sister about his behaviour she becomes extremely defensive but I just can't stand their company at the moment and I feel terrible for saying that. Not sure what to do further but limiting contact seems for the best at the moment.

I've got a huge family, lots of nieces/nephews. Not one of them would have behaved like this at 4, nor would any of my own. Your comment about OPs son's ASD is frankly disgraceful.

Speak with your mum first and explain why you won't be coming for Christmas day and invite them for either Christmas eve or breakfast. You just also need to be absolutely clear with sister why you are all not sharing Christmas day (ir any other day).

1. based on my own experience, nephew is ND/SEN. Which is not your problem. Likely she has tried “everything” but due to his “wiring” the typical strategies are not effective, or take years. Likely mum has heard loads loads of helpful comments, trust me, she knows. Is either not interested, or trying. Don’t be another voice ….

1. Prioritise your own. Without putting blame on her. Make a plan on Xmas, like we are having early breakfast then doing very long uphill walk, or going to seaside, church or beach cleanup. Something impossible with her child. That they won’t do. On the day, maybe weather really bad… and cancels your plans….

Based on similar experience, can cause a big rift if you are honest. Just make a plan, don’t need to make an excuse unless it’s “joining a group from XYZ, doing a fitness walk/fun run/community help”
Might be interesting / laughable experience for your family ….

“We can come by yours after…”

Looks like the sister has entered the chat....

WTF 😒

I could literally have written this a few years back with my SIL. Nephews are destructive, rule the house and don’t pay any attention to discipline & MIL & FIL often laugh off their bad behaviour. It has impacted schooling as one DN has no friends due to punching, biting other kids & also lying about them in younger school years. School ended up involving social services as nephews learnt that lying got them attention but it back fired massively.

We longer have dinners with in-laws for birthdays, Christmas, Easter etc as the one time we had just them over SIL cried as she couldn’t cope, kids didn’t eat the dinner she cooked etc as MIL is always there to do everything & my DC don’t want to spend time with their cousins due to their behaviours.

I find it really frustrating as our DC are the ones who miss out on time with grandparents.

Your parents sound like they want to help resolve the issues which is great & hopefully over time your sister takes on board the advice and help being offered to her.

I wouldn't see them on Christmas day as your own kids deserve a nice day. I'd just take the gloves off and start telling the boy off myself for behaviour which crosses the line. She'll have to get used to it now he's 4. Non family members won't be tolerating that behaviour quietly much longer. Other kids will start to give it back too. I'm not sure how you managed to hold back over the cake incident.

Wow talk about sacraficing your DSD's mental health.

The fact that your DSD is their only friend suggests that they didn't grow out of it and have turned into people that nobody wants to spend any time with.

That doesn't suggest you know what you're talking about.

How about the other children?

Christmas breakfast does not need to be a secret and I definitely wouldn't make it one. Invite your parents and I'd your sister asks why she's not invited TELL HER WHY. She needs the hard truth, you are all sick of her lack of parenting, word it however you want buy get the point across. She may fall out with you for a bit but that's her problem.

I agree with a previous comment, why are yous so afraid to tell her straight? It's got to be done or it all continues.

Continue to tell your DN off for bad behaviour and if your sister objects tell her someone has to do it cause clearly she isn't.

My DS used to be like this. Blowing out other peoples candles etc. Well, I was next to him ALL the time preventing him from doing stupid things on an impulse. That's my job as his parent. He was not to upset other children and even if I explained that he's autistic it doesn't make him:me unaccountable for his behaviour. I held him back from blowing birthday candles, I constantly monitored him to prevent him from doing stupid things. I know him by heart and I can see when he is thinking about something or planning to do something not acceptable. It was really hard until he got older and learned to self regulate better. You do not have a problem with nephew, you have a problem with sister who does not take responsability to prevent accidents and also has the cheek to minimize. Not acceptable. I would tell her this in a very kind but firm way: She takes control and watches her child closely or nobody is going to be around them.

I think saying “that's disgusting don't ever do that again” is pretty mean and aggressive, particularly as you are not his parent.

How can they support her if she doesn't accept that there is any problem with her son's behaviour? Is OP supposed to agree with her excuse that 'he is 4' and allow her own autistic son to suffer from his cousin's behaviour?

Do you think it’s kinder for him to have the same words (or stronger ones) when he does this at a classmate’s birthday party when he’s five or six, and is socially ostracised as a result? It IS disgusting to do that, and four isn’t too young to hear that.

How else will he learn, given his parents encourage poor behaviour by teaching his aggressive things to say and laughing at poor behaviour? I think any adult in the family witnessing such poor behaviour should intervene.

She needs to woman up and take responsability for her child. That means monitoring non stop and put boundaries in place until he gets it. She's excluding herself by stating his distuptive behaviour as normal which it clearly is not for a four year old.

If you believe ANY of what you've written, you are either the sister in the OP or you are a similarly-(lack of) minded crap parent and teachers probably dread to see you and your children possibly landing in your class.

This is not 'normal' 4 year old behaviour It is shit poor parenting and letting the child run the show without rules or boundaries, and to hell with everyone else in society.

My kids were told by me if you don’t behave Johnny’s mum won’t have you back again! They were always asked back so I assume they behaved!

Do you really think that stealing a piece of cake from OP's autistic son, chewing it and then spitting it out on her son's plate is normal behaviour for a 4 year old who hasn't yet started school?

You sound as though you are blaming OP's son for being upset by this. His autism may make him react more strongly to this behaviour, but most people would be completely grossed out by this.

You also think that the OP should have anticipated this extreme behaviour from her nephew so what happened is also her fault.

You are laying the blame everywhere except with this boy's own parents.

Urgh the spitting out the cake is rank! Did you sister in law expect your little boy to just then eat the cake with his saliva all over it OP?! @Sunshineandalltherainbows

I had exactly the same with sil1 and her three year old but more than 20 years ago. His behaviour was atrocious. Hitting other, smaller children, throwing the plants from the Centre Parcs flumes onto the children below, refusing to sit at the table, hands in food, snatching toys, no please or thank yous. From one perspective he was three, from another if the mother set no boundaries and had no expectations it was unlikely to improve. No way on God's earth would MIL or FIL have said anything and it wasn't my place. And MIL was a former Deputy Head at primary. It formed my view of SIL - poor parenting, low standards and just couldn't be bothered if it meant effort on her part. I distanced myself but that was easy because they lived on the other side of the world.

Fast forward 20 or so years and he is addicted to gaming, smokes a lot of weed and has a zero hours job in a supermarket warehouse and has refused a substantive contract because it will tie him down. Whilst I suspect the lad is neuro diverse, so is one if mine and they never behaved like that, work hard and have a good and productive life.

SIL has reaped what she sowed. Her other two DC are little different although without the addictions as far as I know and one works. Every day I thank my stars they are on the other side of the world. MIL doesn't mention it and she was/is the world's biggest kid bragger.

Keep your distance op. There is nothing to be gained.

@Ozanj

who does like their food contaminated? You trying to feeling us you would happily eat food covered in someone else’s spit?!

You sound like a great mum!

Aggressive? I really despair sometimes.

So what would you have said/done as his mother did nothing and the birthday child was understandably upset?

@neepsa

but it IS disgusting though, nothing aggressive about stating a fact 🤷‍♀️