Wibu to pull my daughter from certain classes

[PepaWepa]

My daughter's year 3. I wrote a post recently regarding ADHD.. to cut a long story short, I've been bringing ADHD up to the school since March 2022 but have been dismissed and ignored with it. At parents evening recently, looking through her books, I noticed her English book was simply full of negative, demotivating comments regarding her work. I enter the parents evening meeting, and they start by telling me how good she is at English, with reading level age of 11 and reading comprehension age of 12.
So I asked about the comments in the book, and they go on to list all the signs of ADHD for why she's not finishing her work etc etc and receiving such comments.
I haven't been able to let it go since, I'm absolutely fuming that they've let her struggle and even more so I'm devastated that my daughter is being left to feel shit at recieving such negative comments in a subject she is so highly capable at. She's so sensitive and I have noticed more recently that she gets frustrated and embarrassed now when she's not able to do something right first time. I feel like all of this has to be contributing.

I want to pull her out of her English classes until they accept and support her properly with an ADHD diagnosis.

To add as I think it's relevant, I also have suspected ADHD, and was expelled from a school age 14 following an incident in English class re me not finishing my work on time. I won't let my daughter face what I had to go through.

From what you’ve said, she sounds like most Year 3 children!
Has she got a diagnosis or not? if not, then perhaps school doesn’t agree with your home diagnosis!
You will not be able to withdraw your child from English lessons - and if she’s achieving as well as you have been told, then she clearly is enjoying them. If she felt negative about them, she wouldn’t be doing so well.
When marking pupil’s work, it’s important to be factual, so you might say ‘please check for punctuation, you’ve missed out some full stops’, or ‘your handwriting is messy today, remember to keep between the lines’.
Writing bland comments such as ‘lovely story’, ‘well done’, ‘good work’ doesn’t tell the pupil enough about what was lovely, well or good. So they don’t know how to improve.

Are you projecting your own experience here? Has she actually said she’s worried about the comments or have you decided that’s the thing that is impacting her? Your response to this is incredibly impulsive- removing her from English isn’t going to help her. Thinking about strategies to support her to focus better on written work would be more constructive.

Also, if there are no corrections, she’ll never improve. I work in a sector where our written work is torn apart - the red pen is a normal, everyday thing which makes our work better. what are the comments that you are perceiving as mega negative? Can you include some here so others can give a perspective on whether they’re normal or unusually harsh?

How can she work so much better than ‘greater depth’? I mean, that’s generally the top 5% of pupils. If she’s not being supported then clearly her ADHD isn’t holding her back at all.

You can't pull your daughter out of English classes. Schools don't work that way. What are the negative comments?

Another thing for you to consider is that to access additional services down the line, the school will need to provide evidence of their graduated response to your child’s needs. This might be through a support plan where they set small step targets for your child then review the targets and set new ones. Initially, this will be based on what the school can make provision for in house. Two review cycles at least would need to be completed before the school would be able to apply for any kind of inclusion funding including an EHCP. Your child needs to be in school and accessing the support offered so they can decide whether this meets the need of your child or they will need targeted and specialist support. A diagnosis does not guarantee targeted and specialist support as many children manage well in school with high quality teaching focussed on inclusion. So the only way to progress to the next stage would be through working with the school not against the school.

It's a stupid idea and your daughter would be embarrassed by it. The school won't allow it, and nor should they. Move schools if you're that upset by negative comments. Your daughter will make new friends.

Just from the educational aspects?

I used to be an English teacher. Secondary not primary. If you pull her from these lessons you will damage her education.

You. Not comments in a book.

If you aren’t happy then change school. She can make new friends.

I don't think I'm projecting my own experiences necessarily, I'm very defensive and sensitive when it comes to her though.

I agree after reading these comments that removing her isn't the best thing. I would prefer to speak to the school and have the be more understanding, but my experiences with them in the past have made that very difficult. They genuinely don't listen to me.

It sounds like you have no trust in the school. You need to move her. You say you don’t want to home school her because of the social aspect but that isn’t really a valid reason when so many people home school and are very active socially. They will not allow you to take her out for English lessons only. Plus it’s not really fair on your daughter - it will probably put her in an awkward position with her friends asking about it and classmates wondering why she is never there.

Will you home teach her the English at least? I can’t see how her missing English will help her at all. It sounds like they’ve done a good job over the years if she is excelling? Does she actually have a problem with her English lesson or is it just you that does?

Also with regards to the comments suggesting changing schools and her making new friends, we moved onto a new estate next to the school. The estate built a pathway to the school, making it a minute long walk. Everybody moved onto the estate at roughly the same time and all the new kids started at that school, so there's a real sense of community that we wouldn't get elsewhere. I admittedly have some social problems and I wouldn't be able to provide her with this anywhere else.

Hi @PepaWepa, what were the negative comments? I'm a teacher, and am interested to see if constructive feedback is being perceived as negative.
Also, I'm really shocked you were expelled at age 14 for simply not finishing your work. That seems really, really excessive. I can assure you, this would not happen nowadays!

Tbh she's excelling because she is just genuinely a naturally good reader, it runs in the family and I've read to her since she was born. She's been reading since before she started school.

Jeez. So you don’t have an ADHD diagnosis yourself (it seems self-diagnosed which literally means nothing). You actually got expelled from school which must have involved some very serious behaviour (I can’t remember a single girl getting expelled in my entire time at school and just a few boys who got expelled for serious violence), regardless of whether it followed on from not doing your English work. It doesn’t sound like you take any responsibility for it - it was all the schools fault apparently and they shouldn’t have made you do your work.

Now your daughter who again doesn’t yet have an ADHD diagnosis has received praise about her reading but also some comments in her book about not finishing the work which you have interpreted as “demotivating”. So the teacher is not allowed to be critical of your DD ever, even though this usually leads to pupils improving their work. You can’t seem to come up with any examples of the demotivating comments. Apparently they only happen in English and none of the other many subjects she will study.

And most outrageous of all, you propose marching in to the classroom and removing your DD, in front of all her friends, from a core subject. Do you have any idea how humiliating that would be for her socially? As well as teaching her the lesson that nobody can ever criticise her. I am actually astonished- I think you win the prize for most unreasonable parent I’ve come across in a long time.

Maybe get a private ADHD assessment and then see about supporting her properly, not kicking off at the school. And maybe also look into the purpose of schools - they are there to teach. Sometimes that will mean correcting behaviour and work.

I have ADHD which has been agreed by the ADHD nurse I had my assessment with. I'm just waiting for a diagnosis.

Also, I'm not sure where you've got that from that I blame the my old school for trying to make me finish the work when I've given absolutely no details on it. You're making a lot of assumptions on my life in your comment.

How does your child feel about English? I give loads of feedback that isn't written down. If you're only looking at written marking you're only seeing half the story.

Around me an ADHD initial assessment is 18 months after referral. I'm surprised the school could submit anything without your involvement. We need parental views and consent here.

What is your plan post-diagnosis if she gets one? Children with ADHD are still expected to do their work and to do it in the way the teacher has asked. There should be reasonable adjustments but high expectations for all. Y3 does involve a lot more stamina for writing than KS1. It's not unusual for children without SEND to struggle with transition to Y3.

it didn’t used to happen either. And she said it followed on from not doing her work. I’m guessing type teacher tells student off for not finishing her work and student screams at teacher that she’s a fucking bitch or gets violent. I was at school in the 90s and behaviour had to be extremely serious for an expulsion.

A diagnosis isn’t some magical answer though. You still need to work WITH the school in order to help her be as best supported as possible.

if you don’t think you can work with this school then leaving here there will be doing her a disservice

Not at all.

And it wasn't in the UK or the 90's.

Have you asked your daughter how she feels about her English lessons/work feedback? Are you projecting your issues onto her or is she genuinely distressed by it?

You're projecting OP. Deny it as much as you want, but your feelings are about your experiences and feelings, not your DD's.

You are paying zero attention to what people (many of them teachers) are telling you on here. Do you also refuse to listen to your DD's school and teacher?

Can I gently suggest that you find some counselling so you can speak to someone about your own school experiences and long undiagnosed ADHD? You're obviously scarred by it. Don't transfer these experiences on to your DD.

Well it sounds like you are - you’re blaming your DD’s school for negative comments on her work (despite these being accompanied by positive ones). Then you say that it’s triggering because your school tried to make you finish your English work. Doesn’t seem a lot of responsibility for your actions there.

What were the negative comments then?
Why are there issues only in English and not in Maths or History?

Why is it the school who have let her down? You've done nothing to pursue a diagnosis, one gp visit 4 years ago, moved and then gave up.
Regardless of diagnosis she will have to engage with her education, surely the focus is better placed on strategies to support her , she has been referred now (and is still quite young) but that process is likely to take a while.
I agree with PPs that this largely seems to be your own baggage around school.

Also you repeatedly say the school don't listen to you, I find this is often more about not being agreed with, they can listen and disagree.

What actually are these demotivating comments?

I teach this age group and we prioritise verbal feedback in the moment with children as they are very unlikely to remember what you've written in their books. Does you daughter feel demotivated about English?

If she's wandering around the classroom that probably is quite disruptive. I usually have one other adult if I'm lucky, often just me and thirty children. They have a wide range of abilities and needs so I am working with a child whose writing is of year one level in a year three class, and a child whose EHCP says they need to work on a laptop and a child who has ADHD and can't write more than a few sentences without me keeping him on track. I'm also trying to push all the other children on as I've got SLT breathing down my neck about data. There is really only so much one or two adults can do with thirty children.

A private ADHD diagnosis might give you some clarity and strategies to help your child but it won't translate into any extra money for support in school. You need to work with your daughter at home on her writing if you are worried about it and also communicate with the school.

I didn't say it was triggering for me. I used it as an example for what could happen if these things continue to go long misunderstood.

History wasn't mentioned and I didn't have a chance to look through her books. Maths she's doing well in.