Wibu to pull my daughter from certain classes

[PepaWepa]

My daughter's year 3. I wrote a post recently regarding ADHD.. to cut a long story short, I've been bringing ADHD up to the school since March 2022 but have been dismissed and ignored with it. At parents evening recently, looking through her books, I noticed her English book was simply full of negative, demotivating comments regarding her work. I enter the parents evening meeting, and they start by telling me how good she is at English, with reading level age of 11 and reading comprehension age of 12.
So I asked about the comments in the book, and they go on to list all the signs of ADHD for why she's not finishing her work etc etc and receiving such comments.
I haven't been able to let it go since, I'm absolutely fuming that they've let her struggle and even more so I'm devastated that my daughter is being left to feel shit at recieving such negative comments in a subject she is so highly capable at. She's so sensitive and I have noticed more recently that she gets frustrated and embarrassed now when she's not able to do something right first time. I feel like all of this has to be contributing.

I want to pull her out of her English classes until they accept and support her properly with an ADHD diagnosis.

To add as I think it's relevant, I also have suspected ADHD, and was expelled from a school age 14 following an incident in English class re me not finishing my work on time. I won't let my daughter face what I had to go through.

Comments are 'good try', which op says her dd is sensitive about.

My opinion

Go through their policies online - see if they are straight up breaking their own rules.

Once done see the in-between parental advisory (not called that but I think all schools have them) or the school welfare officer ("I don't want my DD to miss school but..." due to xyz it's heading that way)...or one of the school governors. Get someone on side. Might also be worth googling charities that deal with autism/ADHD for their advice how to proceed.

Last resort change school but I wouldn't try and just withdraw from one subject as you will lose the moral high ground.

Good luck

PS
It's bad teaching practice for teachers to be so negative so hopefully they'll see the light.

Maybe they aren't negative comments but ways to improve as per most school's marking policies.

@Vynalbob what 'rules could they be breaking' by standard marking process?!
And what do you think the welfare officer will say to "I don't want my daughter to go to school if teachers mark/correct her work".

Oh dear.
I'd have a chat with the teacher(s) and explain how the comments are being received. I'm sure they'd be concerned to know they are upsetting one of their students.

As for ADHD testing, this is an absolute minefield at the moment and you're best off finding someone in your area who has been through the local routes. Experience varies so wildly as do the choice of routes themselves.

Please, PLEASE do not start removing your child from lessons. If you feel this passionately about the situation, may I suggest you consider a school move or de-registering to go the Elective Home Education (EHE) route.

Deregistering into EHE does not have to be permanent, you are entitled to re-register whenever you choose. What is permanent however is the criminal record you risk by triggering an attendance issue which may be compounded by any safeguarding concerns raised by the school over your actions. Please believe me when I say it is highly unlikely the court will have any time for your reasons, your passion, your experience or any commentary about your daughter's wellbeing, and you'll leave the hearing with a nasty fine and a criminal conviction. Your daughter will be no better off.

If it helps, we have quite a few families here who de-registered into EHE, concerned their child was not being supported appropriately. Some are waiting for ADHD or similar assessments, others have had theirs and are now waitlisted for a suitable school. There are online schools who operate solely over MS Teams or Zoom if you are concerned about your ability to cover DD's education yourself.

Good luck, OP.

The thing is having a good grade in English and Maths makes a difference to prospects. Which she won't get if she's pulled from class.

If the issue is the teacher not the lesson I'd look for a new school. What you went through sounds awful but don't let it cause you to be reactive for your daughters sake

Writing good try is teaching being "so negative"?

1. Does the school accept parent volunteers in the classroom? I went into one class every afternoon for a term, helped out in general, fixed DS with my eye when necessary and kept him focussed and behaving.
2. Or will they let her bring that lesson's work home for you to help her tidy it up and do it properly? I got them to lay off him on writing at one point, and he did it at home, gently, with me. He wasn't ADHD but he was ND and my view was that he was neurologically unready to write, but I didn't argue with them. I think creating a story is enough at that age, and at home he would tell me his stories, I would scribble them down, and then type them up nicely for him. He began typing and then writing from choice about nine, and then he and his friends started a weekly magazine at ten, and asked for a spelling dictionary so they could improve their spelling!

How can you send your dd to a school you have so little faith in? Remove her and find somewhere else. Removing her from English lessons just isn’t practical and I doubt very much it will be allowed.

These are two separate things.

I'm not talking laws or national guidelines (though they often are copied n pasted from national guidelines examples) I mean
'rules' as in policies regarding what they are supposed to do/ put in place regarding a child with any additional 'needs', what's the process - who should be involved.

Second thing is the welfare officer. People jump to the conclusion that they'll be the big baddie character when in fact sometimes if you try to preempt a situation by getting a good WO onside the school are not going to refuse any suggestions/ compromises made by them.

Schools are generally not run like the mafia getting someone to agree with you in my view will help with any situation.👍

@PepaWepa I’ve not got time to read the whole thread but have you heard of flexischooling? My son is AuDHD and struggles with particular lessons too. He is so much better regulated if he avoids those lessons and is better able to access learning in the lessons he does attend as a result.

People will say you are being unreasonable and I would probably have joined them in the old days before having a son with ADHD myself. Now my son flexischools so he spends one days a week at home studying extracurricular activities and catching up homework and the rest in school. It is working really well for him (year 8 now and started doing it in year 7).

English is a core subject your daughter can’t opt out of but why not try to get the school to agree to you teaching her English at home as a flexischooling arrangement. Lots of schools won’t entertain this but my son’s school has and I know of quite a few others who do this for their teens too. One does all their maths at home as they couldn’t learn at school.

Consider joining us on Facebook on the Flexischooling Families UK group. There is also a website findingtheflex dot com that you may find helpful. I’ve just realised your daughter is still primary age, flexischooling is more common in primary, but might be harder to take her out of English due to the way the day is structured, whereas for my son we take him out of timetabled classes as secondary has specific classes on specific periods of the timetable.

But if you join the flexischooling Facebook group you can find out what other parents do and how to make it work. I first asked about flexischooling on mumsnet and had lots of people tell me it wouldn’t work and school would refuse, but he’s been doing it successfully for the last year, it just isn’t well known about. Good luck!

You could see if your child can go out of lessons for extra support

"she's not finishing her work "

1)Why is she not finishing?

2)Why not spin this. Turn it onto them. In an email (so there's a paper trail) ask for no more negative comments, instead for a list of objectives, specific things they do want her to focus on, to get a higher grade. Eg developing her vocab, conjunctions, or inference and making predictions. (Which ASD children might struggle with).
Look at the yr 3 English curriculum and where she has gaps. Or better still ask them to write to tell you which gaps she needs to fill.

If a child in my class was failing to do the basics needed to meet the learning objectives simply because they were finishing their work, I would not be doing this. It's like when parents ask for more to do at home but never reading with their child or doing the homework that is set every week. Some children do very little in the classroom under their own steam; they need reminders to do more than a sentence in a 40 minute lesson. That's the issue and there's no need to dig a huge amount further until they sort the basics first.

Not sure whether you managed to read all the updates. I'm not sure that countless children get up and walk off in class if they loose focus in year 3?

You need to work with the teachers, not against them. Sit down as a team and come up with strategies to help your daughter be more successful. They can’t give her good grades for substandard work regardless of the diagnosis. But they, you, and your daughter must work together for the best outcome. Taking your daughter out of school will hurt her tremendously and will teach her to retreat when times are tough rather than to find a way to make things better.

Book an appointment through the GP. Don’t remove her from classes you are too close to it based on your own experiences, but she isn’t you.

This doesn’t make sense! On the one hand you’re convinced your dd has adhd but on the other, haven’t bothered to get a diagnosis. Then you’re blaming the school for that!!!
you need to find out for sure and then if you are not happy with the school, move her! It’s ridiculous to talk about trying to take her out of one lesson a day. As a school governor I would say absolutely not, schools don’t have the resources to supervise one child whose parent wants to opt in and out of lessons. Even if you were prepared to go into school for that hour, you’re singling your dd out as ‘different’.
either home school or change schools but don’t expect everyone else to fit in with your idea of picking and choosing!

If I were you OP I’d find a new school.

And gently, she’s in Y3. What are you going to do when she’s in secondary and her work is actually corrected if she’s showing a misconception?

Are you always going to threaten to remove her from any situation where she isn’t getting a load of gold stars?

What she can do is highlight to her daughter’s teachers what works well for her daughter and what doesn’t. Most people will
laugh at that idea for secondary but I emailed every one of my son’s subject teachers at his secondary and gave them a one page profile explaining what works with him
and what doesn’t.

It has been revolutionary. His teachers give him positives for stuff that most take for granted, like focus in class, good class work, perfect uniform and being on time - and unwanted behaviour is usually dealt with by sending him to the inclusion centre for support. One of his teachers sends me their end of topic quiz so that I can support him with revising for it. Outcome is he does well, feels good and stays regulated. He’s not planning to take that subject for GCSE but it’s keeping him regulated in school and able to access learning in the subjects he will take.

There really needs to be a big rethink of how SEN kids are supported in school - the one size approach doesn’t work for many and they have an equal right to access education as any other child.

Removing your daughter from one subject is unworkable. Quite apart from the fact that you risk her falling behind, how do you propose to manage removing her from one class a day?

@madnessitellyou I probably agree about finding a new school - this one sounds awful and unlikely to do much more to support. Could be good for other pupils if she can persuade them into better practices though.

I’ve been very lucky with my kids’ schools - it was my son’s primary that suggested we get him assessed for ADHD - it hadn’t crossed my mind. They also suggested the ASD diagnosis that he had prior to that though I had suspected it since he was 18 months. I have struck gold with his secondary too, it’s not the school most parents locally want their kids to go to so they work hard to support those that do. My respect for our education system has massively increased from my experience with these two schools.

Yes, I'm wondering how the OP intends to achieve the diagnosis.

My experience is in Scotland. As a teacher I was sometimes asked to complete questionnaires about specific pupils to be returned to the consultant at the local hospital.

The school had no say in the process. The parent had to take the child to their GP in the first instance.

You have decided str definitely has ADHD or Autusm Because you are going through assessments yourself? You've not been diagnosed with anything and neither has she.

You are not an expert and you seem so focussed on getting g her this label

Have you actually tried working with the teachers -it seems your being OTT after seeing comments in a book and one discussion at a parents evening

How does pulling her from English class help in any way?

Yes.

In primary in Scotland, the fashion at one point was "two stars and a wish" - the "stars" were the aspects which had been completed well; the "wish" was what required improvement.