Wibu to pull my daughter from certain classes

[PepaWepa]

My daughter's year 3. I wrote a post recently regarding ADHD.. to cut a long story short, I've been bringing ADHD up to the school since March 2022 but have been dismissed and ignored with it. At parents evening recently, looking through her books, I noticed her English book was simply full of negative, demotivating comments regarding her work. I enter the parents evening meeting, and they start by telling me how good she is at English, with reading level age of 11 and reading comprehension age of 12.
So I asked about the comments in the book, and they go on to list all the signs of ADHD for why she's not finishing her work etc etc and receiving such comments.
I haven't been able to let it go since, I'm absolutely fuming that they've let her struggle and even more so I'm devastated that my daughter is being left to feel shit at recieving such negative comments in a subject she is so highly capable at. She's so sensitive and I have noticed more recently that she gets frustrated and embarrassed now when she's not able to do something right first time. I feel like all of this has to be contributing.

I want to pull her out of her English classes until they accept and support her properly with an ADHD diagnosis.

To add as I think it's relevant, I also have suspected ADHD, and was expelled from a school age 14 following an incident in English class re me not finishing my work on time. I won't let my daughter face what I had to go through.

I still don't get what you're actually going to do with your daughter whilst she's not in English.

It sounds like you've completely lost faith in the school, are you looking at alternative schools?

I think you're doing more harm than good by pulling her out of English in this way. Most of what impacts children's education comes from their home, so I'd think how else you can support her from what you do at home.

They have referred her now, sorry I should have added that.

The school do not listen to me, on anything I've ever spoken to them about. I don't know what I'm supposed to do about it.

We actually live next to the school so we'd go home for that time.

The Senco rang me and have said they've put forward a referral for ADHD. I was then told I need a visit or phonecall from the health and wellbeing service first, so I'm just waiting for that. In the meantime, I'm going to be GP.

School are not the gatekeepers for an ADHD diagnosis. Talk to the SENCo and GP about the concerns you have about your daughter and ask what the referral process is for your area. The wait to see someone will probably be 15-18 months once you have got the referral underway . Typically, referrals aren’t accepted for ADHD until a child is 7 as symptoms overlap with developmentally normal traits in younger children so your child may only just have reached the point where a referral is considered in your area.

Check the school’s marking policy and see what it says. Comments should be in line with that.

Then talk to the SENCo about how your child’s needs manifest in school. Your child doesn’t need a diagnosis to have additional support if that is what is needed. You will get the best outcome if you go in prepared to work with school and making sure you present a united front to your child. If your child has heard you say you want to pull her out of English, pull back on that quickly and be clear what you want her to aim for in class. Work along the lines of: Your teacher and I both want you to try your best. We know you find it tricky to ,,,,,, this is what we’d like you to try e.g. timers, checklists, check-in from an adult, etc. Then celebrate every small win.

Why haven't you found a school which is a better fit if you have been unhappy for long? Seen your daughter's GP for diagnosis?

No, I'm not projecting. I just really wasn't comfortable with how demotivating the comments were in her English book.

She has good friends there who I'm unwilling to take her away from.

Can you give us an example of one of these comments?

it only being in English really doesn’t make much sense!

It is a stupid idea but is moot, because You won't be allowed to pull her out of English.You can insist all you want, but it won't happen.
Also, there is no way you got expelled from a school for not finishing your English work

A quick google told me you can get a private adhd assessment for less than £1000. Surely you do this. And look for a new school. I can’t see that a school will facilitate you pulling her from lessons or that this will help anything. In meantime until you can a new school Id suggest raising concerns again with teacher and point out your concerns re their comments, what you’d like them to do differently.

I asked why the comments were so demotivating and was told that when she's writing stories etc she gets too distracted, gets up to go and do other things, or goes 'off on a tangent' instead of following her story maps, so she finds it hard to sit and write what's required in English as a subject as compared to other subjects

What does your daughter say when you talk to her about getting distracted?

Have you made suggestions to your daughter about how she can sit with her story maps for longer before getting up and wandering

Why don't you ask if you can help your daughter in the English lessons (i.e., sit with her to gently stop her being distracted and help her to NOT go off on a tangent)

The teacher surely is obliged to point out what your daughter is doing, which stops her achieving the excellence that the teacher can see that your daughter is capable of ?

Your daughter obviously needs a diagnosis of adhd or autism, but until then, why don't you work WITH the school to help your daughter achieve all she can?

It must be very challenging for the remainder of the class and the teacher, if your daughter is wandering around and not fulfilling the task

No child will get expelled simply for not finishing their work. You obviously don't like or have faith in the school and that will affect your daughter. You need to keep going with a diagnosis and find a better school for her needs

What are the actual comments?

I said an incident that followed me not finishing the work.

You need to work with school, not against them. Have you got their backs up by going in all guns blazing? If you have, it may be too late to repair your relationship with them.

It won't be helpful to remove your DD from English, with it being a core subject.

My dd's grammar school agreed to her dropping a subject. It was either that, or she school refused the days it was timetabled, such was the anxiety it caused her (ASD)
Obviously a bit different due to age, as she took herself off to the library and worked on her other subjects.

If you're struggling to get your point across verbally, email them.
I don't know why, but I gave visions of you being aggressive and immovable 😳

You say that you find the comments demotivating but has she said that? You might be looking at the comments through your bad experience.

It is fine to tell the teacher your thoughts on the feedback and how it can be reframed as constructive feedback but I don’t think you have a chance with the school/governors/local authority at removing a Y3 from one specific class. I don’t think any professional would think it was beneficial to a student.

I can’t help but think this is your anxiety over your experience … Teachers litterally have a whole marking policy which always includes how the child can improve ..

You will be doing her no favours at all removing her from English.. it is a core subject so needed for all her other subjects too.

You are asking the wrong questions imo /the question should be how can Dd be supported to stay on task.

I have my own Dc with ADHD, so it isn’t about opting out it’s finding ways that work - put her at the front of the class, put her next to someone she isn’t interested in chatting all lesson with, give her prompts to get back on task .

The other thing is there no positives at all as again I would expect there to be some .

You say the school haven’t been supportive of anything you asked because if it’s like the Opt out of English it won’t happen.

If your Dd does have ADHD then she needs to find a way in the world with her ADHD bit it out.

How would that physically work? Are you not going to send her in until lunch time?

It seems that some of the issue is caused by a lack of diagnosis of ADHD. Can you fund an Ed Psych to get this? Alternatively you could write direct to the LEA and ask for an EHCP assessment which would involve them getting an Ed Psych report. Most likely they will refuse as there is no diagnosis and no delay? (What’s her written work like?) Or ask your GP for a referral.

Also what do you do at home to support the suspected ADHD? So perhaps teach her to jot down lists of work immediately in her work planner. Teach her organisation skills. With writing teach her to use concept maps, key words, flow charts. Get her to write down all her ideas as a brain dump and then organise them into concept maps. You could buy various lap top programmes eg writing block that do this. Also teach her to cover the non important text and focus on the important text for comprehension .Can she use folders to keep her ongoing work in? Also if you work with her at home you can give her a lot of praise and ‘can do’ attitude. Also she might just need reenforcement to be able to manage pieces of work.

As others have said, what’s she like for everything else eg maths, PE etc.

It sounds like, you already have your own baggage related to English in school but one way of helping your daughter to succeed in school is to not pass this baggage on. Though it may be too late.

1. Speak to the teacher about the school marking policy. They will have one. Teachers aren't necessarily on board with it and are usually stuck with what the management team thing is suitable feedback and marking.

1. Suggest some positive strategies with less negative marking on paper/in book. Rewards for finishing work, opportunities to discreetly take something home to finish. Or another suggestion that you and the teacher decide on.

1. Is she not finishing because she's messing around? ADHD will obviously have a huge bearing on this. Does she need some brain breaks, is she able to facilitate a short break, with a 10 minute session with a TA or even a walk to the office, throw a beanbag in the hall, whatever.

Even if it's only breaks when she has a long piece of writing to do. Let her choose when she needs the break, so her flow isn't interrupted while she's writing.

1. Go to the GP and ask about an ADHD assessment. Or get one done privately.

And remember, just because you had a bad experience at school does NOT mean she will. Teachers aren't necessarily so much more supportive than they were back in the day.

I've also found secondary teachers have really brought the best out of my kids, and seem to know/like/understand my kids more than the primary ones.

Good luck.

It's home educate. And she very likely could, if her situation would allow her to try.

She can make new friends. At that age they are in and out of the friendship everyday anyway.

But you do understand you can't pull her from a class and keep her at the school?

If its comments like good story but you got distracted / went off tangent then thats pretty standard. If you suspected ADHD you start the assessment process yourself. At that age its normal for some distractions, so assessing what’s age related and what’s more than that takes time as children mature.

Sounds like you’re not happy with the school but its convenient as you live next door. How are you going to explain to your child why they are coming home when English is taught? They will not be happy i’m sure to be the only child taken out and questions will be asked, kids will tease etc. What benefit to your daughter will it bring? If you feel very strongly about this take it to the head who will speak to the teacher concerned. Surely its better for this to be sorted out quietly without your DD being singled out in class and cause upset for her.

Second the short break idea - the school could send her to do an errand which allows her time to refocus.

I would go through the strategies of ADHD in class and ask them to put in thos3 strategies that take no resource now. You could also ask for the curriculums in advance and go through it with her.

The reality is that even with an EHCP there is little support unless High Needs/ Low incident which she does not appear to be. So any adjustments in class will be small adjustments eg more praise, memory aids, breaks.