Wibu to pull my daughter from certain classes

[PepaWepa]

My daughter's year 3. I wrote a post recently regarding ADHD.. to cut a long story short, I've been bringing ADHD up to the school since March 2022 but have been dismissed and ignored with it. At parents evening recently, looking through her books, I noticed her English book was simply full of negative, demotivating comments regarding her work. I enter the parents evening meeting, and they start by telling me how good she is at English, with reading level age of 11 and reading comprehension age of 12.
So I asked about the comments in the book, and they go on to list all the signs of ADHD for why she's not finishing her work etc etc and receiving such comments.
I haven't been able to let it go since, I'm absolutely fuming that they've let her struggle and even more so I'm devastated that my daughter is being left to feel shit at recieving such negative comments in a subject she is so highly capable at. She's so sensitive and I have noticed more recently that she gets frustrated and embarrassed now when she's not able to do something right first time. I feel like all of this has to be contributing.

I want to pull her out of her English classes until they accept and support her properly with an ADHD diagnosis.

To add as I think it's relevant, I also have suspected ADHD, and was expelled from a school age 14 following an incident in English class re me not finishing my work on time. I won't let my daughter face what I had to go through.

How exactly are you planning on doing this? Hang around school all day, then go in and pull her out of English lessons and sit with her for an hour? This sounds a completely bonkers plan, school (rightly so) wouldn't allow it anyway.

Hi OP - I’m a former school governor so have some background.

It might help to make sure you are clear what your rights are and what your responsibilities are.

You are responsible, by law, for ensuring your child receives an appropriate education (through school or otherwise)

You have a right to a school place for your child, which will be offered by the LEA, while your child is of compulsory school age.

You have a right to withdraw your child from religious education and some elements of relationships and sex education but none of the other subjects, including English.

https://schoolleaders.thekeysupport.com/curriculum-and-learning/curriculum-guidance-all-phases/structuring-curriculum/withdrawing-children-from-subjects/

You don’t have a right to be your child’s TA (as another poster has suggested further up: there’s nothing to stop you suggesting it but plenty of reasonable grounds for a school not to want a parent in the classroom).

You can decide to take your child out of school when English is taught. That will be an unauthorised absence, and you’re liable to be fined.

You have a right to withdraw your child from school and educate in the private sector or at home.

If you feel your child has additional needs then you can ask your local authority to carry out an assessment for EHC, and if your child needs adjustments in English lessons then that will be mandated through an EHCP.

If you feel that the school is treating you unreasonably it is worth bearing in mind that they will be very aware of your rights and responsibilities above, and through this lens you are asking for something the school can’t permit. I think the best avenue would be to pursue an assessment for your child to see if adjustments are needed.

You’ve lost your faith in the school so I think the best thing to do would be to look for another that can meet her needs better. You’re creating a big battle with this school and it won’t end with you feeling better about her going in - you’ll be cross with them and always thinking the worst of them.
I think a fresh start is probably what you and your daughter both need.

Hi again OP, no time to RTFT, but have you spoken to the school's SENCO?

I don't really understand how you trying to get an ADHD diagnosis for your daughter and the school telling you your daughter likely has ADHD is the school being unsupportive about her ADHD and you need to withdraw her from classes. Seems like you're both on the same page.

Good post @MagentaRavioli

Interesting. I have been professionally diagnosed with both BPD and ADHD a number of years now and was told that they were distinctly different things with just overlapping symptoms (much like BPD and CPTSD). I’d personally not spend your time worrying about a future threat of BPD really. Unless you think this is causing extreme trauma for your child, which it doesn’t sound like it. Just keep being encouraging and I promise I’m not being a dick, I do understand the ramifications of undiagnosed ADHD in young people firsthand and it’s good you’re pursuing further help if you think that’s the issue.

Also teachers rarely just lie about things. They sometimes are trying to sort out an incident and are trying to figure out the truth in a ‘he said, she said’ kind of way and don’t always get it completely right. But most are trying their best and want the best for the children. The language you’re using is very strong and negative. You do seem quite angry with the school which is maybe why some people are suggesting you are projecting your own feelings. You yourself have said you are overly defensive about your daughter.
Like I said in my other post you clearly dislike the school and lost faith/never had any faith in it. Do you think you can ever trust them? If you won’t move school how are you going to progress going forwards and try to work together with them?

it’s quite likely that the teacher saw the incident, assumed your DD and the other girl were play fighting (as kids of that age do), then later on it became apparent that the other girl was a bully and the incident with your DD was one-sided.

You are attributing hostility/ negative intentions to the school when it’s quite possible to be more like a misunderstanding of the play-fighting situation.

Bpd is largely caused by the trauma of being emotionally invalided.

For example, if a child has been SA, they won't really go on to develop a condition like BPD for that reason alone.

However, a child who has been SA and then has to endure the trauma of being disbelieved and emotionally invalided has a high chance of developing BPD.

Obviously that a big example using SA, I use this because many sufferers of BPD have a history of it.

BPD is caused by the trauma of being invalidated growing up, which is often the case with undiagnosed ND kids

Removing your child from school (or even just English) for displaying the very behaviour which got you expelled seems like history repeating itself. Think about what support might have helped you.

I'm a teacher. You can't pull her out but I definitely think the school could be hearing and helping you more.

Assessments by Ed psychs are becoming very hard to get; you have to complete an audit of what's called 'ordinarily available provision' (about 60-80 statements confirming this or that is done); I'm not a SENCO but having done a couple of audits, I assume if anything listed isn't done you have to implement it and say there's still an issue before they'll come out. If your DD is working at a good level or is broadly manageable at school then they may not think they have a chance of getting anywhere.

That said, consistently not finishing or being slow is something I'd be concerned by, so even if an assessment didn't mean in class support/ EHCP, I would try to get a child looked at and assessed for access arrangements purposes come secondary. I would also consider trying to get them on the 'in-house' SEN register. What happens at ours is that we hear from the child anything they worry about, and what helps them, and put in place some unobtrusive, but helpful in class support for them. Even if it's just regular 'check ins' or ensuring they always receive verbal feedback on their work.

Regarding the comments, I'd talk to them. Negatives don't motivate brilliantly on the whole. I tend to go too far the other way and focus on small wins, but it does help. I went on a course recently (I'm only 2nd year qualified) about developing intrinsic motivation, and the fabulous HT who was helping at the training spoke about how children believe they can do anything when they come into school and how he did not want to see any child leave who had lost that feeling. So if you struggle with a subject, relentless 'this is wrongs' don't help, especially if you're trying really hard. I don't think it would be hard for them to start trying to find the small improvements, and focus on 1-2 things to change.

That said - your DD might just be being lazy, and if she hearing you talking about ADHD might think she can use it as an excuse. I'd still expect her to step up and if she wasn't finishing despite support, would be keeping her in for 10 minutes at break until she tried to do something. Lots of children procrastinate, but once they get started can produce great stuff.

Do you have any links to the BPD claims

If you have issues with the school and how English is taught or neurodiversity (or suspected neurodiversity) is supported, your options are:

Talk to the school, engage with existing systems for raising concerns and complaints

Move to a different school

De-register and home educate.

You don't get to withdraw from core subjects, it's not feasible.

It isn’t.

So you admitted it is not 'changing into' at all but that they have trauma which is nothing to do with BPD at all. Trauma is a normal reaction...

You don't get trauma from ppl talking on mumsnet!

Anyone who wants to silence their victims gets them diagnosed with BPD so they are not believed...that is the most common. The SA thing is that they suffer trauma and then many are told it isn't the trauma that is the problem but their personalities...their brain! Wandering womb doesn't exist in my eyes, you might believe it but for me trauma after SA is normal not abnormal.

Also we are all ND...

Whatever you hope may happen, your daughter is not going to be removed from a core subject like English.

I get that you are wealthy, and money talks in many different situations, but it isn't going to be of any help with this.

No one would ever think that removing (or even trying to remove) a child from a core subject class is a good idea or even a possibility.

In fact, I am deeply suspicious of this thread. No-one has ever been expelled from a school for not finishing their English work.

But practically how can you do this? The school don't have to allow you onto the premises or provide you with somewhere to sit with your child and if you remove her from the school, they don't have to let you back in again for her to attend her next lesson. I get that you and her aren't getting the support and belief that is needed but I think that the solution you are asking about is not workable.

Your assertion that she doesn’t ’play fight’ is very disconcerting. Firstly, you’re not in school with her for every break and lunch time, so you have no way of knowing if what you’re asserting is factual.
You THINK she doesn’t play fight, but you cannot be certain. If she does have ADHD, it would be quite possible that she play fights - many children with an ADHD diagnosis are very tactile with their classmates and this often manifests as playfighting. 7 year old children are also often selective with the truth, especially if it means they’d avoid getting into trouble. It doesn’t make them a bad person, it makes them a normal child.
You’re not doing her any favours by being so certain that something doesn’t happen when you’re not actually there to witness events.

This!

“my DD comes before any rules and regulations“ 🙄Oh dear - where do I start? You sound entitled and petulant and as others said seem to make excuses for your DD rather than encouraging her to apply herself more and be guided by her teachers rather than seeing them as adversaries. Your victim mentality will harm your child‘s education and social skills.

Pursue a diagnosis if you think that’s to blame for your DD‘s learning difficulties but also keep in mind how young she is and how much development she still has to do and how individual in terms of speed and depth that will be rather than looking to appoint blame at everyone else.

Move her to a different school, get her diagnosis and get her some private tutoring if she needs it to develop focus and cope with ADHD if that is what she has. Other than that, it will be frustrating for you and for your daughter. good luck.

OP: you have to realise that you are making a lot of claims that are difficult to accept at face value without you giving more justification.

Your Y3 child is getting excessive negative feedback from teachers. OK, what are some examples of that feedback?

You were expelled from school at age 14 due to not completing your English work. Can you tell us more about it? Were there other factors that might have influenced the expulsion decision, and if so what were they?

Your child never gets involved in play fighting, although the school have said otherwise. How do you know this? If she's an only child the fact that she doesn't play fight at home is not surprising! How do you know what she does at school? Has she explicitly told you this?

Undiagnosed ADHD can lead to BPD. Do you have any sources supporting this claim?

You can't expect people to offer you the most useful advice if you keep making these statements and not saying more about them. It looks like you're being evasive and trying to hide something, which people don't respond well too.

I agree with this, my DS struggled through school. He was extremely hyper and always in trouble at school, had a lot of interventions. School asked in yr 4 to send for assessment, I stupidly declined, big mistake that I really regret. They asked again in year 5, I accepted but he had a NQT and didn’t score high enough at school and was misdiagnosed. Struggled further in secondary, school referred, but didn’t score high enough at school again for ADHD but was diagnosed with ASD. At no point did he ever see the ed psych as they said that the w/l was too long. I still find it hard to believe he didn’t get an ADHD diagnosis, as people had been asking/commenting since before he started school and he was off the scale at home. I think family bereavement also coloured school’s view and some schools are just rubbish at getting children diagnosed 🤷🏼‍♀️. I have 2 other DS who are now going through the assessment process as teenagers and they went through the same schools 🙄. One of which said that it wasn’t worth going for a diagnosis as they didn’t think I’d want to medicate and he’s made it this far🙄.
I really wish you luck but it is so difficult, I hope that you find a better school but even then, the diagnosis process seems to take forever, good luck.

OP do you feel that your emotions are not validated by the school or the majority of posters on this thread?

You appear very black and white and amplified in your thinking (blame and projection) and are doubling down in your opinions rather than opening up to other perspectives which is what a thread is about. Its not an echo chamber to reinforce your initial beliefs. Your thoughts to pull your DD put of her class is on the surface distorted and impulsive reaction. And you mention your issues with relating and socialising with others. I suggest that you are struggling with your own identity and MH and recommend that you seek professional support as your seemingly disproportionate interpretations, emotional reactions and behaviours are likely negatively impacting your own DD future MH and current educational, social and emotional development. I hope that you can find RL professional support and not rely on online rabbit holes.