Having your own children making you question what you were told about other families

[comoatoupeira]

Does anyone else find that having children is making them not take the word of their own parents anymore as being the norm?

I grew up with a mum and dad who were obsessed with not being too hands-on, I was always praised for being independent etc. They were divorced, don't know if that's relevant?

My mum was always talking down about other parents (mums, let's be honest) who she thought were over-protective. So all the jokes in our house were about mums who wouldn't let their children do this or that because it was apparently dangerous, or mums who didn't work and would arrive 10 minutes early at the school gate to, apparently, show off their blow dry or outfit, or something.

Now I'm looking back on it as a parent myself and I'm looking it the other way: like, these were mums who were sorted and organized so they were on time, and they were stay at home mums for x number of reasons but one of them being they wanted to be with their kids after school. I'm looking at some things that happened to me, like some medical things, that my parents didn't really follow up on or help me with, and looking at it the other way: this was maybe a bit neglectful, and the helicopter-ish mums we laughed at would have been there for their children and helped them.

Maybe this is a cultural change thing because it was the 80s and cool to not be a mumsy mum, and now there's a cultural backlash going on where we are romanticizing motherhood and caring roles again.

Anyone relate?

This post really resonates with me

I realised when I saw the antics of my PIL. I thought, bloody hell these are a couple of narcs! Then I realised they’re no different to my parents.

I always knew that my parents would put each other first before the kids, same for ILs. Now i would have said they were a product of their time (70/80s) BUT my grandmother always said that her children, when they were children would come first. And she had 12 kids, so a lot of work and that was the 50s.

Realising that I am a product of selfish non-parenting and so is my husband is a sad thing.

I think the thing many of the current children would be saying on a thread like this would be things about over reliance on screens as babysitters and helicopter parenting without time to play unattended. Or parents parenting from behind a phone screen. Screens replacing the benign neglect of unsupervised play outside and chores etc. There will ALWAYS be something we get wrong because of these very contradictions - independence v full support. Of course they’ll be on threads like this - don’t imagine anyone is perfect. Hopefully they’ll understand their parents love them and did their best the same as we have to do in many cases. Without difficult experiences, we don’t move forward and become more resilient, whatever those experiences are. And also we have to learn to live in society and can’t be a disparate group of indulged individuals.

@TinyTeachr I think you need to teach them how to do things, teach them how to use the washing machine - checking pockets before you put things in, separate colours -dont put red socks in with white shirts etc and those things that feel obvious but are actually learnt through experience. They need to be taught how to make meals or to follow a recipe, to go shopping - not always buy the things at eye level as they are more expensive.

That doesn't mean the have to be left to do all of their laundry or to cook every meal, but teaching them the skills is essential rather than leaving them to flounder. If they hang out in the kitchen with you or go shopping with you they'll pick it up naturally from you modeling tasks but it helps if you explain why. But if they don't do that then they are going to struggle.

In other words pass on your knowledge so that new situations aren't new, scary and overwhelming.

I used to think a bit like you OP about my own situation. When I first became a mother and was totally sideswiped by how hard I fell in love with my child, I thought back to my childhood a lot. I thought my mother mustn’t had cared about me enough because we never talked about my feelings. She didn’t ’seem to care’ about my education or anything I was going through. I rarely confided in her or my dad etc etc
I am so glad I didn’t speak to her about it because as I have aged a bit, I realise that I was being a bit of a brat to think that way. That perhaps I am an independent and resilient adult because of how I was raised, not in spite of it.
I highly recommend everyone read a book called Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier. She touches on a lot of this and makes a very good argument that parenting in the 80s/90s was largely right in the sweet spot.
Please, everyone, unless you suffered clear neglect or abuse, think really hard about blaming your parents for all your insecurities and worries. Own them and fix them yourself.

Sorry I haven't read absolutely everything in the thread but I have kind of the opposite experience to this and it's still messed me up as my parents were extremely vocal about how much. They loved spending time with us and were hugely self-sacrificing (although they probably wouldn't have seen it that way). They were pretty judgmental of parents who weren't as hands on and present as they were. I also remember my mum talking very harshly about other parents who had the nerve to ever have a moan about their kids and say she just couldn't understand how she could talk about their children in such away.

Now I've got two extremely wild and determined boys (4 and 2), possibly including 1 ND, we live abroad with no support and I honestly really hate some moments of parenting. I struggle every day and often wonder at the choices I've made. Although of course I love them both endlessly. We recently managed to afford/find a babysitter to give us a morning off ever other weekend and all I could think was that my mum and dad used a babysitter probably less than 10 times in my entire childhood. So on top of all the real challenges I've also got my inner monologue telling me I'm failing because I don't love every single minute of parenting and don't want to be with my children every waking moment.

I hope it isn't insensitive to post this here, given that obviously my childhood was lovely in comparison to some of the previous posters here. But it seems like every type of parenting has its unexpected consequences! Another thing that also troubles me about how I approach parenting - what am I leaving in store for them unknowingly..?

One thing I resolve to do is never criticise other parents in front of my children.

Someone said previously in the thread that maybe mothers can't win and I'm not sure about that but I think there's definitely a spectrum of what is most healthy to least as caregiving goes. Maybe your parents just complained to each other about the struggles but felt them just as much as you do. They just made sure to never let on to you about it as children?

Out of curiosity, what do you consider real neglect and abuse?

Good for you for getting a babysitter and for your resolution not to criticise other parents. I also decided to do that - and not to criticise other children either! You never know what might happen with your own parenting or children.

But were we sad/anxious, though? I think a lot of posters here say that they felt sad about their childhood once they became parents, and I totally get this. But at least my memory is that it was part of our generation to think 'fuck parents, fuck teachers'. Most children/teens I knew very actively distanced themselves from their parents/teachers, and enjoyed feeling angry/sassy/rebellious. There was ime a lot of peer pressure to do so, whatever your parents were like. We were punks, goths, skins, too cool for skool - none of us would have been seen dead hugging their mum or dad. I grew up in Germany and there hardly any of my peers spoke about their parents saying 'mum' or 'dad', everyone used the words 'Alte' (basically meaning old hag') or Alter ('old git'). I then also lived in many other countries, including the UK, and it was definitely a softer culture here, but still more antagonist between the generations than today, and it wasn't all caused by parents. Parents wouldn't talk about periods, but it's equally true I think that most of us would have rather died than having our parents talk to us about intimacy.

I can completely relate! I had two knee surgeries when I was 1i, and in both instances I was non-weight bearing for 2 weeks, so on two crutches.
Guess how many days my parents took off to look after me? None.

So I had to manage making food and drink on my own.

Now my mum is constantly saying how she worries about me and cries when I haven’t answered my phone. Laughable really.

My friends dad was v v overprotective. He made her wear a cycle helmet (not cool back in the day), walked us round where the fire escapes were when we went to holiday together and loads of other stuff. Her parents were always on time to collect her from school etc..

She found her dad embarrassing but I thought he was amazing to care so much and I'd have loved a dad like that! I seem to have married a man much like this girl's dad! ... accidentally/unconsciously, but my children will have the protection I never had :) From.me.and my husband!

@NellyBarney I can't speak for everyone. I can speak for myself and some of my friends back then.

Was I anxious? I don't know, I don't think so? It wasn't a thing when I was growing up. Sad? I was what I recognised now as depressed, self harmed, and often wished I was dead, contemplated killing myself. I had other friends /acquaintances who self harmed, who numbed themselves with alcohol,drugs, sex or all of the above (at 13/14), a friend who dropped out of school at 16 to become a "dancer" , more dropouts, in jail by the time they were 20 , at least one other person who killed themselves. So yeah , I guess we were "sad".

The only help I got was being told to "stop being so stupid" (cutting )and to drink some milk and go to bed after drinking some laundry detergent(I was indeed not very smart).

It's one thing to reject your parents and be cool,grow up, be independent , it's another to know they've rejected you first and they don't have your back.

I went through a phase of being critical of my parents when my kids were very young. The older they get (older teens now), the more I realise how difficult it is and you can only do your best. My patents made some mistakes, some have had a leading impact. But they loved me and still do. I've been far from a perfect parent, as has DH. But our kids are pretty OK, as was I. I'm sure we could have done better in various areas - hindsight is wonderful! I'm fully expecting my DC to critique some of my decisions in raising them and I will apologise as generally we've muddled along in some confusion with conflicting theories and advice chucked around all the time.

Perhaps your parents did genuinely value independence. Perhaps your mum was jealous of the other SAHMs so put them down (not exactly parenting crime of the century). If you were loved, relatively well taken care of, encouraged rather than constantly criticised, then they probably did alright.

Independence is important
I’ve spoilt mine too much

My parents couldn’t have been more hands off … short of leaving us in the wild. I stopped calling them Mum & Dad when I was nine as I realised that I was effectively my own parent. I don’t recall them even noticing 😂 they were great in so many ways but just didn’t really believe in doing anything for myself and my Dsis’s that we could do ourselves. We’re all very independent women which is probably because we had to be. They used to laugh at me with my DDs, roll their eyes and tell me to leave them alone!

Yes OP my parents gave me loads of freedom, though if they knew the things I got up to, they might of been shocked- which they should of been, cause I got myself into some dangerous situations- thankfully I came through them all. There was no way was I giving my kids the same freedom I had!

Yes same here OP. My mum was divorced and I would say a good mum really but I was often left to my own devices and she would mock my friends parents who helped her with her homework as being totally overbearing. Of course times were very different in the 80s to now ! I was definately more grown up and streetwise than my kids are.

I don’t know what it’s like in England but here in the USA most any couple who decides they want one parent to stay home can do this. Yes it means sacrificing additional income but for many people this income would be spent on childcare anyway so typically the only women who work are those who really prefer to work than stay home

🤣🤣🤣

Did they survive??

It's the mocking others and being sneery about them that stays with me.

Because every time she did that it was shutting a door for me. I could only be interested in or do things that she thought of as worthy. Music was good, sports were a waste of time. Art was pointless but science was worthy. Etc etc.

As an adult I've managed to open some of those doors for myself, but I do resent not being able to pursue some of the things I really wanted to as a child, and having career choices just wiped out of existence because it was inconceivable that I could be a designer/nurse/dancer/whatever.

I also wonder if she would or does look down on me now I've ended up as a sahm.

The obvious, really. I’m sure most people understand what I mean by that. There are plenty of resources available online and it runs from mild neglect and abuse to extreme.
Off the top of my head, physical abuse, emotional abuse, constant belittling, not meeting the child’s basic needs etc etc

Hi op,

i think that is kind what is true.

there is the image that children want to give such as having cool parents not being bothered...
and then there are children whom have parents effectively unbothered that are tired of tv and dreams of friday boardgames.

both are true. Extreme are bad. Everywhere and all the time.

Parenting absolutely changes as the years go by. Not least as each generation tries to do better than the one before because we know more. Knowing more is only good if the stuff you learn isn’t just a fad or driven by the media who fan our fears. There have always been helicopter parents but I think it’s more widespread because of the media.

My parents were pretty hands off and weren’t very good at being parents. My mother was a social climber, didn’t approve of a lot of my friends and as a result I think I wasn’t always very nice myself. She fell out with people including her own family. Both DSis and I try hard not to emulate her. But as with all of us because we’re humans, we all judge people (even if it’s unconsciously). We all think I’d do X better, those children are horrors. Sometimes we’re right, sometimes not. And we don’t have all the info.

It’s taken me a good while to fix myself but I think I am better person now than in my twenties, less angry for a start.

My kids grumble about their childhood as they had to go the childminder for years, but we couldn’t afford for me to be a SAHM. DP didn’t want to give up his job even though I was the higher earner. So have realised that’s not all on me, though I think they blame me more.

You need to move on, accept the past and break with it and parent the way you want to. Be the best you can be, accept the past is another country.

You don't need to be a sahp for your children to feel safe and loved! I am a sahp because one of my DC is disabled but my parents worked full time and I never doubted I was loved! I went to school by myself 7 years old as many others, picked up younger sibling from nursery and watched him until one of my parents came home. I actually think that I was very mature and independant early on. I had confidence because I was allowed/expected to be able to to things. What I notice with my DS who is not disabled is that at 11 y old he is not independent at all and I'm the one to blame for this since I've been catering to his needs and doing things for him that he ought to be able to do for himself. I am slowly trying to step back for his sake. I think you get this independent child "for free" when you are working because the children have to be so they get more resilient. If they know they are loved by getting physical affection, learn to respect people and boundaries as well as being respected and listened to when you're not working I think it's optimal for their growth that you ARE working. They are made to feel important but you also have other obligations so they learn to be independant and not just the center of the Universe. I would definitely have chosen to have worked if I'd had only NT children.