To hope that Donald Trump doesn’t win the election

[RosaMoline]

….it’s getting closer.
I was hoping that Kamala would be a shoo-in for the presidency, but looking at the betting odds, I’m feeling quite pessimistic.
It’s incomprehensible to me that a convicted felon, racist, rapist, liar and misogynist who spurred on an insurrection - after everything that’s happened - is running for office again and may very well win.
It’s comforting to read though that fellow Brits DON’T support him.
Apart from Reform. Obviously.
yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50752-who-did-britons-want-to-win-the-2024-us-presidential-election

Trump doesn’t have a policy. I’ve watched the news and read all about the nonsense he spits up. Harris is way more suited to the job by a long way. Like I said school yard childish tantrums. Ridiculous.

Well obviously, racist twats always stick together. Farage was openly fascist at school, tormenting his Jewish fellow pupils. Trump has said that he will blame the Jews if he doesn't win as they should all be voting for him.

It’s astonishing to me that all the crimes Trump has committed PLUS inciting an insurrection doesn’t disbar him from a second presidency.

The BBC interviewed some Muslim voters in Michigan who had always voted Democrat but were now going to vote for Trump. One woman said that she had voted Democrat all her life but this time she was not only voting for Trump, she was going to campaign for him. They feel betrayed by Biden and Harris due to their support for Israel.

I don't know what Trump's policy on Israel/Gaza will be, but he has previously implemented a Muslim immigation ban and Netanyahu is one of the leaders he admires. Things will definitely be worse for all minorities under a Trump presidency. He criticised Biden in August for asking for a ceasefire as this would 'tie Israel's hands behind its back'. As he has no normal human reactions to anything and absolutely no empathy, I'm doubtful he will be affected by the dreadful scenes in Gaza and the Lebanon.

While I understand the feeling of betrayal that Muslim democrats feel about the Gaza issue, I've really do not understand how they think that Trump will be better, given his history of racism and support for strongmen leaders such as Netanyahu, Putin and Orban.

Trump moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Netanyahu is desperate for him to win in November so he can carry on with his expansion and expulsions.

No, she didn't admit that. She has been elected numerous times and...

Oh I really can't be bothered. You'll obviously believe any meme. You love Dirty Donald, have at it. He despises you.

This sort of 'both sidesing' is what points to the fact that we now live in a 'post truth' world and we're all completely f*cked.

Trump is a fascist and his entire campaign has run on vicious demagoguery.

This is how you end up living in a repressive autocracy. You sleepwalk into it.

@izimbra Its true that people can have different views, and someone can vote for Trump because of a sincerely held, well reasoned belief that he is the best choice. But I agree, acknowledging that is different to just accepting that all interpretations of reality are equally valid.
I think there is a difference between if say me and my friend are trying to decide whether we want to get white wine or red wine. I might think her opinion that red wine is better is wrong because we are eating fish or whatever. But I can't call her stupid or evil. But if my friend starts insisting that the Cabernet Sauvignon she ordered is actually white wine then that is just straight up not true and its not "hateful" to say actually, that's a lie. Its not partisan for an uninvolved bystander to agree that the wine is red even if the wine being white is an "emotional truth" for my friend.
Its probably emotionally true for some people that immigrants are eating cats, or that feminists caused the US invasion of Aghanistan. Its not true though. If it is true that Trump has a well thought through policy then I wish the people saying it would say what it is. Otherwise it is just another emotional truth.

' I don't care about you. I just want your vote'

Donald Trump at a rally in Las Vegas , 9th June 2024.

That's what 'demagoguery' means - it's about appealing to the desires and prejudices of your audience, without regard to objective reality.

His influence on US politics has been an absolute disaster.

This is the guy who appeared as a guest on Infowars and validated Alex Jones, AFTER Alex Jones made repeated claims that the Sandy Hook massacre didn't happen, leading to a decade of torment for the parents of murdered children.

He's objectively an appalling human being.

What is he doing to worsen it?

Lying incessantly.
Othering immigrants.
Calling people names.
Threatening his opponents.
Threatening to use the military against citizens while simultaneously denigrating the enlisted military.
Admiring Hitler.

to name just a few things

To really understand Trump's political strategies and the damage he's done to politics, you need to understand that he's engaging in behaviours recommended by his previous chief strategist Steve Bannon - to 'flood the zone with shit'. To poison the well of information and comment. So Trump's political life has involved him just engaging in a relentless barrage of lies, distortions. So the American public is left in a state of utter disorientation. AND THAT'S INTENTIONAL.

That's what's meant when we refer to a 'post truth world'. The truth is lost. It's absolutely terrifying and it's completely intentional.

When people ask 'why is Trump held to a completely different standard to other leaders' - this is how, and why.

Yes. And the rest of the party has fallen right in line behind that.

I consume a lot of political news and the thing I'm struck by over and over is that Democratic politicians from city council level up to president, although I might not always agree with them, generally talk about policies that have been given some thought and are aimed at improving lives. Republican politicians, whose policies I often disagreed with in the past, but respected as us just having a different world view, never seem to have policy now. Nothing about their platforms seems to be aimed at actually improving lives. It's just all stoking anger and divisiveness.

He despises anyone who he considers beneath him. Or who disagrees with him. And yes it is about creating fear and stoking division.

Trump was mentored by Roy Cohn who told him that if you keep saying a lie long enough, people will believe it. He also taught him to attack, counter attack and never ever apologise.

Trump's policies:

• get rid of the department of education
• defund the FBI and the DOJ
• a bonfire of consumer protections and industrial regulation
• enormous tariffs on all imports, none of which will apparently drive up prices
• use of school vouchers to defund and destroy the public school system, & allow for the return of widespread racial and religious segregation in schools
• dismantle as many environmental protections as quickly as possible
• destroy Obamacare

He's publicly disavowed Project 2025, but those people who understand the genesis of Project 2025, particularly the Mandate for Leadership are confident that this absolutely WILL be the blueprint for the start of his next term in office.

https://www.aclu.org/project-2025-explained

It will involve mass sackings of civil servants and their replacement with Trump cronies.

"Project 2025 is a federal policy agenda and blueprint for a radical restructuring of the executive branch authored and published by former Trump administration officials in partnership with The Heritage Foundation, a longstanding conservative think tank that opposes abortion and reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, immigrants’ rights, and racial equity. Project 2025’s largest publication, “Mandate For Leadership,” is a 900-page manual for reorganizing the entire federal government agency by agency to serve a conservative agenda."

Obviously not. If everyone hopes he won't win, no one will vote for him and he won't win. That is not likely to happen though.

Just because he isn't to many people's taste on this side of the Atlantic, it doesn't mean he isn't enormously popular in America. In particular, he is seen as patriotic and on the side of the poor and disenfranchised. Most of them view his previous presidency as successful.

Whatever we think of him in the UK, it doesn't matter. We don't get to vote and there are probably enough of the people who do get to vote to give him another term in office. We don't have to like or understand it.

This is what appals Republicans like Liz Cheney. They can't even recognise the party they've spent their lives in. We may disagree with virtually all Cheney's policy positions but at least we can make an informed decision on them. It is difficult to counter Trump's rage and paranoia by talking about policies.

But , hard as it is to avoid the temptation to just point out his dangerous lunacy, maybe Harris should concentrate more on her ' forward offer' in the closing stages? People know he is deranged ; some like it and some don't. There are more Democrats, they usually win the popular votes. She just needs to get them out in the swing states.

A Trump presidency could damage UK trade almost as much as Brexit.

Why?

Trump's promised a 10-20% tariff on UK imports.

On ALL imports.

The US is our second biggest export market after the EU.

@brentwoods

People keeps saying he's a convicted sex offender. He's not -- it was a civil lawsuit, not a criminal one. Regarding an incident from almost 20 years ago. At least get your facts straight if you want to criticize people for voting for him.

What is the relevance of it having happened 20 years ago?

Is that somehow better than it happening 2 years ago?

Confused as to why you mentioned it.

A question to any Trump supporters on the thread.

If Donald Trump hadn't ever been found guilty of a crime, but Kamala Harris had been found guilty of 34 felony crimes... are you honestly saying you wouldn't say she should be banned from running for president? That you wouldn't scoff at the idea someone guilty of 34 felony crimes is standing to become the leader of one of the most powerful countries on earth?

Firstly - you have to REALLY ask yourself WHY - given Trump is most of the things you say, that HALF the US voting base is voting for Trump AGAIN? AKA - How bad is the other guy?

Clearly, awful.

Secondly

How dare you judge half the US, AND 21% of the UK?

"It’s comforting to read though that fellow Brits DON’T support him.
Apart from Reform. Obviously."

It's people like you, without the slightest insight outside of their own political bubble that has lead to this disaster, here and everywhere else.

Kamala thinks lesbians can have a penis, for that alone she deserves to loose.

Yes @goingforalongwalk your post makes the most sense here. I have realised from other threads that most mnetters who post on political threads get all their news from bbc/guardian and are pretty clueless and in no way representative of the general population. They think Starmer and Labour are great even though they only got 20% of voters to vote for them (one of the lowest ever of an election winner) and most of the electorate think they're massively incompetent, vindictive and/or mad as a hatter. As you say it doesn't matter what they think and Trump is probably going to win, voted for by people who are much more knowledgeable of US politics (the US electorate).

Out of interest, what are your news sources?

Firstly - you have to REALLY ask yourself WHY - given Trump is most of the things you say, that HALF the US voting base is voting for Trump AGAIN? AKA - How bad is the other guy?
Clearly, awful

Totally disagree. They would be voting for Trump whoever was the Dem candidate. MAGA are a cult.

How dare you judge half the US, AND 21% of the UK?

I'll judge them as much as I want. I'm happy not to be a mysogynistic racist.