To hope that Donald Trump doesn’t win the election

[RosaMoline]

….it’s getting closer.
I was hoping that Kamala would be a shoo-in for the presidency, but looking at the betting odds, I’m feeling quite pessimistic.
It’s incomprehensible to me that a convicted felon, racist, rapist, liar and misogynist who spurred on an insurrection - after everything that’s happened - is running for office again and may very well win.
It’s comforting to read though that fellow Brits DON’T support him.
Apart from Reform. Obviously.
yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50752-who-did-britons-want-to-win-the-2024-us-presidential-election

As software developers used to say back in the day

Garbage in. Garbage out.

If people are fed disinformation they will draw erroneous conclusions.

People commented on the fact that a Nazi rally was held in MSG in 1939 because the atmosphere and content of Trump's rally wouldn't have been out of place at the 1939 rally. It's fucking chilling.

I don't know how you can just brush past the racist and misogynist content spewed out by the various 'comedians' and Trump supporters. The 'island of garbage' wasn't the only racist joke. He continued with extremely unfunny jokes about Latinos and black men and a complete nutter with a large crucifix called Harris the 'Antichrist'.

Trump is the most thin-skilled, childish candidate for the Presidency ever. He absolutely hates being made fun of and, when this happens, he immediately starts plotting revenge. If an interviewer asked him a question he doesn't like or can't answer, he just says 'that's a horrible question' or 'you are a terrible interviewer'. If Harris did this, there would be uproar.

I’ll certainly give you all an E for effort. You all realize there’s as much chance of me changing my mind as you suddenly becoming Trump supporters, right?

Oh you are absolutely right on both points. Republicans are of course being dishonest about immigrants coming to steal jobs. And yes, the billionaires backing Trump and his cronies (overtly or covertly) and corporations in general have made the US jobs market one of the most insecure, low paying and exploitative in the West. The rhetoric is definitely a diversion. As is labelling working three jobs a great American value. Women staying at home a great American value (Shhhh dont say it loudly that maternity leave is shit and if one parent is working three jobs and child care is expensive then the other one stays at home).
Edited to add: Women and indeed men can be stay at home parents if they so wish and agree between them as partners. But it shouldn't be overtly or covertly forced because of unfavourable policies. Policies that can be fixed fairly easily

People aren't expecting to change your mind, just trying to understand your rationale for supporting Trump.

Our politics in the UK are pretty polarised but nothing like in the US. A recent poll in the UK has found that 64% of British people want Kamala to win and only 18% want Trump to win, with 66% having a negative opinion of him.

The most revealing figures from YouGov’s polling come from breaking down the numbers by supporters of different UK political parties. An overwhelming majority of Labour and Liberal Democrat voters say they want Harris to win – 83 per cent and 86 per cent respectively. Meanwhile, Conservative voters back Harris over Trump by a margin of 57 per cent to 25 per cent.

There is only one group of people who are more likely to back Trump than they are Harris. That’s supporters of Nigel Farage’s Reform UK Party. Over half (54 per cent) of Reform voters told YouGov they want Trump to win the US election, compared to just 26 per cent who prefer Harris.

Tory voters would normally align with the views of the Republican Party in previous elections. Reform voters tend to be older with right wing and often racist views. Nigel Farage is a friend of Trump.

I agree with George Bernard Shaw who said that 'England and America are two countries separated by a common language'.

@thepariscrimefiles

People commented on the fact that a Nazi rally was held in MSG in 1939 because the atmosphere and content of Trump's rally wouldn't have been out of place at the 1939 rally. It's fucking chilling.

Oh I understand that, but the PP asked if my issue was the fact the rally was held at MSG so I wanted to confirm that that wasn't the issue I had with, as the venue itself I don't have an issue with.

But I agree the comparisons to the Nazi rally there did absolutely make the obvious racism and Nazi rhetoric / phrasing even more chilling than they would have been usually.

Well yes, if him being accused of multiple sexual assaults (and deemed civilly liable of sexual assault by a jury but yes we understand that wasn't a criminal court) and having 34 felony convictions isn't enough to sway you then yeah, you probably won't be swayed by much else.

Maybe if he was found guilty of sexual assault in a criminal court it would sway you? But maybe not. It seems your standard for the moral compass of a president is bafflingly low.

@thepariscrimefiles

People aren't expecting to change your mind, just trying to understand your rationale for supporting Trump.

Well said.

As well as the racist 'jokes' they called Harris' advisors pimps.

I will never forgive members of the Trump cult for putting a climate change denialist and kleptocrat in the most powerful job in the world, at a time in history where global stability is so fragile.

Climate change and kleptocracy are the biggest threats to geo-political stability imaginable - Trump supporters are about to put a bomb under them. It will affect everyone on the planet. It's an absolute tragedy.

that’s interesting (and I mean that) but not surprising. There are a lot of differences in the UK and US culture that I don’t think either of us can truly appreciate as an outsider. I say that as someone who lived in the UK for a very short time.

A ‘for instance’ is the idea of states rights and local rule. I have never seen anything comparable in the UK outside of NI and Scotland. This has been a fundamental core principle in the shaping of US politics. Which has lead to a pretty robust Libertarian movement. Ironically most Libertarians are way more socially liberal than conservatives but they will generally vote Republican as their beliefs about small government more align. I actually lean more libertarian than I do conservative. I just don’t think you have a large equivalence amongst your parties… I could be wrong about that as I’m not totally up to date on the smaller platforms.

As far as Trump goes… I really am ambivalent towards the man. Give me a ham sandwich that will follow through on sane economic policies, smaller government, no erosion of my constitutional rights, non-disastrous foreign policy, and federalist judges who rule according to law vs. a party line and I’ll vote for it. Kamala Harris is not that ham sandwich… Biden clearly wasn’t either.

Then fix and pay for your own problems and you won’t ever have to worry about Trump again. 🤷‍♀️. I was happy he pulled us out of the Paris accord. The money that everyone expected the US tax payers to pony up was ridiculous.

We will all have to worry about Trump regardless, and even if he loses the election, there are other dangerous right-wingers to fear.

But we did shoot ourselves in the foot by voting for Brexit. Though I had many reasons for voting Remain, my first and initiallystrongest one was that distancing ourselves from Europe would make us more vulnerable to the likes of Trump.

federalist judges who rule according to law vs. a party line

I can only imagine that the intellectual pretzel you had to twist yourself into to see the SCOTUS presidential immunity decision as fitting that philosophy might have cut off blood to some brain cells.

Even the freaking Cato Institute disagreed with that.

I was thinking more about the recent ruling to allow the state of VA to remove non-citizens from voter registration rolls. Why would 3 justices want noncitizens to vote in a US election?

Mmm. To flip it, why would Republicans be so afraid of non-whites voting, and so convinced so many non-whites are non-citizens?

In this case, they are 'purported non-citizens'. A recent purge in Alabama seems to have removed 2000 people who were actually eligible to vote. Making already overwhelmed elections officials (they're having trouble getting enough people due to, oh right, threats and smears) have to scramble around to try to untangle the mess.

Again, the right wing (libertarian) Cato Institute lays out the case for non-citizen voting for anything more than 10s of people to be a non-issue.

https://www.cato.org/blog/shedding-light-incidence-illegal-noncitizen-voting

So, back to what specific policies of Hillary's made Granny flip?
And that SCOTUS immunity decision?

The simple stupidity of saying that other countries should 'fix and pay for' the global climate change problems likely to be hugely magnified by a Trump presidency.

American Republicans are the single most selfish, insular, ignorant people on the planet.

That's why you can't and won't grasp the urgency of climate change.

And I guarantee you'll complain about the massive increase in migration and asylum seeking over the next few decades caused by climate change - you'll find ever crueller ways to vilify these migrants, and I'd be entirely unsurprised if it doesn't end up with concentration camps and death squads.

PLEASE PLEASE educate yourself.

What @saltinesandcoffeecups said (and has said).....with bells on.

Who said the noncitizens are not white? Add to the fact that VA has same day registration for anyone who was removed in error I’m ok with it.

Our presidents get immunity… that’s not new.

And no you aren’t getting my dead Granny’s political views to froth over. I’ve certainly given you enough ammunition to work with of my own views. You can challenge them. Or is there a reason you’re looking for someone’s opinion who is A- Dead B-not engaged in the discussion?

🙄 that’s a bit hysterical don’t you think?

I would also argue that maybe all this money isn’t good in the long run. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/climate-change-loans/

That's not good. But your previous point was that the US was once again a financial victim being ripped of. When in actual fact it looks like a scheme that was benefitting America (if unethical). So I don't know quite why you spun it in your head as American's being forced to pony up by the rest of the world.

It is getting into ridiculous territory when women are fighting on planes and getting arrested for fighting because one of them is wearing a MAGA hat.

I did both 🙂 I’d honestly rather see that money stay in the US vs playing shell game. Sure meet some targets (which I believe did happen under the Trump administration I’d have go back and check that as I may be misremembering) but don’t throw money out to the wind for others to do the same.

Your exact words were "I was happy he pulled us out of the Paris accord. The money that everyone expected the US tax payers to pony up was ridiculous." which had a distinct whiff of the permanent victim about it. But its online so its completely normal for people to accidently exaggerate their original point. Your later explanation makes much more sense. 🙂