To hope that Donald Trump doesn’t win the election

[RosaMoline]

….it’s getting closer.
I was hoping that Kamala would be a shoo-in for the presidency, but looking at the betting odds, I’m feeling quite pessimistic.
It’s incomprehensible to me that a convicted felon, racist, rapist, liar and misogynist who spurred on an insurrection - after everything that’s happened - is running for office again and may very well win.
It’s comforting to read though that fellow Brits DON’T support him.
Apart from Reform. Obviously.
yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50752-who-did-britons-want-to-win-the-2024-us-presidential-election

He is beyond horrendous. He is a fool on the world stage. An absolute joke. If he gets in, that's the end of America - nobody will respect that nation again. He is everything that is wrong with humanity. It unbelievable that he's even standing at all. What does it say about American / Western culture that people vote for that? I can barely bring myself to look at him. He's disgusting.

The way he talks is like someone's old, senile uncle rambling, half-asleep in the corner at Christmas after too much sherry, while nobody takes any notice. Incomprehensible, sentences trailing into nothing. Absolute moron.

The contributions to this thread are really part of the problem. Playing into the polarisation between republican and democrat; smearing anyone who disagrees with you as a racist/misogynist; personal attacks on the candidates’ age or appearance.

In a democracy, some people will like people you don’t like. Therefore sometimes people you don’t like will be elected. It’s literally baked into the system and it’s a wonderful thing compared to the alternative, which is totalitarianism.

I do agree that there are issues with character and corruption in politics. Basically only sharks can win, because that is how the system is set up. But that is a reason for system reform not polarisation and personal attacks.

Where is the best place on the internet to find out what normal, everyday Americans think about the election? On twitter and Reddit it's just full of two extremes of people-crazie bluehairs and gun toting nutters.

I think most people in the UK (and particularly on mumsnet) don't have a clue about US politics and just have a visceral dislike if Trump. Several posters have asked about actual policies which no one has answered because of this. I get the impression that Kamala is extreme left and wants to defund the police etc. but this is just an impression and will leave it to the US electorate who knows far more than me. I also like JD Vance who I hope would have alot of influence.

I answered and talked about policies.

I also like JD Vance who I hope would have alot of influence

I'm just shocked at this statement. He's a bigoted man, closely linked to Project 2025, who will not admit Trump lost the 2020 election, he admits he knew the cats and dogs story was made up but will keep saying it, he insults women who don't have children and says those that do should be entitled to more votes than childless women and he called Trump America's Hitler until his desire for power became too much
Apart from that, he's fine 😱

I'd agree with you if Trump was a normal Republican candidate, but he's not.

It is impossible to have a sensible, polite arguent with Trump supporters.

Of course in a democracy, people you don't like will be elected. But the fear in this election is that a Trump presidency will be an end to democracy as we know it in the US. Trump has said that he wants to be a dictator on day one. What's to stop him doing that? Remember January 6th? He and his supporters still think he won the last election. He is an adjudicated rapist. He admires dictators such as Putin and wants to be like them.

The whole basis of his campaign is personal attacks. The whole 'when they go low, we go high' does't work.

What is Project 2025 @BustingBaoBun ? I have no idea why you think Vance is "bigoted" but think he comes across well and liked his book Hillbilly Elegy. I didn't see your post about policies but most on here are ignorant on US politics and base their opinion on the way that Trump comes across (badly but so does Biden/Harris imo).

It's a bit much to accuse people of being ignorant about US politics and admit in the same post to not knowing what Project 2025 is.

Fear is always one of the main justifications for totalitarianism. The time when you need to hold the most to civilised discourse and the democratic process is when the threat feels the worst.

I don’t like Trump but I don’t agree that all his supporters are incapable of a civilised discussion. Try this podcast:

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/honestly-with-bari-weiss/id1570872415?i=1000673141415

There is alot of hysteria on here eg @@thepariscrimefiles . You do realise Trump has been President before don't you? And during that time the world didn't end. In fact all the wars etc. started when Biden got in.

I agree that polarisation is a problem and calling all Trump supporters/voters names is as bad as calling anyone voters for Harris "libtards", bitter old cat ladies etc. It's probably also true that lots of UK people don't have a full understanding of American politics (though it is crammed down our throats in a way that foreign politics isn't in America. So we probably know more about America than America knows about the rest of the world).
But Donald Trump actively.boasted about how he encouraged NATOs enemies to attack other NATO allies. It's perfectly acceptable and normal for people in those countries to feel peeved about this. Especially if if they have relatives or know people who died in Afghanistan as a "NATO ally" of America (the only time Article 5 was ever invoked was when America was attacked). You (third person sense not you personally) can't strut around being as obnoxious as you possibly can (and saying this proves you are strong) and then cry about being poorly treated when it results in people not liking you very much.

And also, people criticising Trump is not the same as criticising Trump voters or Americans - however much some people want to spin it to make it look like that.

Please google Project 2025. I can't believe you don't know about it. You say most on here are ignorant of US politics but you haven't heard of it? I'm shocked.

Trump has denied he knows anything about it, but he is on record talking about it.

It's a policy wish list for Republicans... expand presidential powers and impose ultra conservatism on the country. It's written by the Heritage Foundation if you've heard of them. (unlikely)

I have heard that tired excuse so many times. No, the world didn't end, but if that's all in it's defence, it's a bit feeble.

During that time he stacked the Supreme Court with nut jobs which lead to the overturning of Roe vs Wade and many other terrible rulings.

The impact he had didn’t stop when he left office.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/oct/21/anti-abortion-us-global-gag-rule-nepal-family-planning-services

All I am doing is mentioning the things that he has said and done. That is not hysteria. You are supporting Trump without even knowing what Project 2025 is.

There were some brakes on his behaviour during his last presidency from his advisers/staff. These people no longer support him and many of them are opening supporting Kamala Harris. His people this time will be as bad as him, if not worse. There will be no brakes on his behaviour this time.

Yes. They learnt last time. It was a trial run. This time it's for real.

I am just agog that the poster hasn't heard of Project 2025 when it has been talked about continually from day one.
It does mean I can skate over any posts though, because it has been a core point in the lead up to this election and to have no idea what it is ....

CNN found that at least 140 people who worked in the Trump administration had a hand in Project 2025, including more than half of the people listed as authors, editors and contributors

Actually, I would argue that the US isn’t a democracy at all. Because the president isn’t elected on the public vote but on the college vote.

Hillary Clinton actually won the 2020 election on the popular vote, but Trump won on the college vote, hence why Trump became president.

There’s nothing democratic about that.

I don't think Trump will last much longer. My worry is that J "where's my brain cell" Vance will become president instead whereas Trump is in it for the money Vance is all for right wing governmental rule. Women and people of colour will become third class citizens and poor white males second class citizens. Gilead here they come

Are you describing the former President or the current one? I can’t tell the difference from this description.

I don't think that's fair. True democracy isn't really mathematically possible. There are downsides to first past the post and to proportional representation. You could argue that the UK isn't a real democracy because Scottish voters have more weight than English ones. But it's hard to balance urban and rural areas fairly. It's entirely possible for it to go too far and end up with a rotten boroughs style system where urban areas have hardly any representation and local squires in rural areas scoop up all the votes.
But if, for example, a UK person was saying it was unfair that Scottish votes held more weight and all votes should count equally, it'd be wrong to misrepresented that as "you just think Scottish peoples opinions don't matter/that they should just agree with the English". Which is what a previous poster was doing when they were setting "rich coastal dwellers" against "the poorest people in the country" bolleaux.

Eh @thepariscrimefiles ? I didn't say I supported trump, I just said I like Vance. As I'm not a US citizen there's no point supporting anyone as spoiler alert I don't have a vote. And admitted I know little about us politics like most on here. I think agenda 2025 is probably mentioned on BBC/Guardian alot which I never watch /read (don't have a TV licence) but sounds like a conspiracy theory.

He speaks to a lot of disenfranchised Americans who see him as a saviour. His past certainly doesn’t define him in their eyes, we know this because he was still elected after the ‘grab them…’ audio.

Tens of millions will be hugely devastated once the result is in that is for sure.

You and everyone else with at least half a brain cell fears Trump winning. Honestly I wonder what the world would be like now if the democrats had selected Bernie Sanders to run Trump in 2016 against the deeply unpopular Hilary Clinton. I think he could have won over the working class voters in the US who ended up voting Republican and had a far better chance of winning against Trump.

I don't agree about Kamala- but even if I did, a bumbling fool is better than a MONSTER OF PURE EVIL like Trump.